I have KJo

[train.]

[ QUOTE ]
what do i do?

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go get a schlotsky's ?

i don't know, looks like sb is getting bb to protect his hand. that plus lp and sb still to act. looks like an easy fold to me.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what do i do?

[/ QUOTE ]

go get a schlotsky's ?

i don't know, looks like sb is getting bb to protect his hand. that plus lp and sb still to act. looks like an easy fold to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would be a terrible expectation.. do you think BB raises with UI overs on a seven player flop? if SB has a marginal hand, check-call is a far better line.

[train.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what do i do?

[/ QUOTE ]

go get a schlotsky's ?

i don't know, looks like sb is getting bb to protect his hand. that plus lp and sb still to act. looks like an easy fold to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would be a terrible expectation.. do you think BB raises with UI overs on a seven player flop? if SB has a marginal hand, check-call is a far better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

what if sb doesn't have a marginal hand but an overpair or two pair, sees two hearts and a pair board and thinks bb will raise his donk hoping to knock out some drawing hands that he is ahead of now.

[freedom18]

yes i think the flop is an obvious fold, very bad reverse implied odds + ur odds dont even match im giving you 2-2.5 on this type of board.

My question is preflop...IS that standard? A raise is too much in this situation given that more people will probably cold call and the pot is too big, so only after 2 limpers we can raise?

[Sushiglutton]

There is only one option: Fooooooold!

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what do i do?

[/ QUOTE ]

go get a schlotsky's ?

i don't know, looks like sb is getting bb to protect his hand. that plus lp and sb still to act. looks like an easy fold to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would be a terrible expectation.. do you think BB raises with UI overs on a seven player flop? if SB has a marginal hand, check-call is a far better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

what if sb doesn't have a marginal hand but an overpair or two pair, sees two hearts and a pair board and thinks bb will raise his donk hoping to knock out some drawing hands that he is ahead of now.

[/ QUOTE ]

an SB overpair that didn't raise PF is also a marginal hand (99-TT type hands*) i'd say. if BB raises, SB probably has two outs.

if SB has two pair, then a flop lead with the intention of 3-betting is good. the context of your post sounded like it was focused on a marginal hand that had no interest in pot building tho, so that's what my response was geared towards.

drawing hands, aside from a gutshot, are not folding this flop. these loose players are calling with their 5 outers, etc.

*sidebar: yes, a TAG could raise these.. SB isn't a tag as far as we know.

[CrMenace]

*grunch*

19:2 with two overs and a BDSD = fold. Especially since a bunch of your outs complete the flush draw, and as multiway as it is a split pot is very likely.

[train.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what do i do?

[/ QUOTE ]

go get a schlotsky's ?

i don't know, looks like sb is getting bb to protect his hand. that plus lp and sb still to act. looks like an easy fold to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would be a terrible expectation.. do you think BB raises with UI overs on a seven player flop? if SB has a marginal hand, check-call is a far better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

what if sb doesn't have a marginal hand but an overpair or two pair, sees two hearts and a pair board and thinks bb will raise his donk hoping to knock out some drawing hands that he is ahead of now.

[/ QUOTE ]

an SB overpair that didn't raise PF is also a marginal hand (99-TT type hands*) i'd say. if BB raises, SB probably has two outs.

if SB has two pair, then a flop lead with the intention of 3-betting is good. the context of your post sounded like it was focused on a marginal hand that had no interest in pot building tho, so that's what my response was geared towards.

drawing hands, aside from a gutshot, are not folding this flop. these loose players are calling with their 5 outers, etc.

*sidebar: yes, a TAG could raise these.. SB isn't a tag as far as we know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the big problem here is my misunderstanding and misapplying the concepts of hand protection and pot building. I'll work on it. thanks.

[Shillx]

titaholic,

There is a KJ hand in the high stakes forum that might be interesting to some of you. That hand is a clear call but this one is a fold imo.