$55 NLTRN: standard KK on A hi board?

[Nichomacheo]

[ QUOTE ]
Standard? Does anyone not bet out the turn?



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t1510)
Hero (t1490)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button calls t10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, Button calls t40.

Flop: (t120) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, Button calls t80.

Turn: (t280) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t120</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t240</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t520

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet more on the turn. As someone who played $50s and $55s for a long time, I would raise you almost every time because your bet screams weakness. By betting more, it costs him more to re-raise you. Think about it: would you bet 120 into a 280 pot with AK here too?

[HokieGreg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Standard? Does anyone not bet out the turn?



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t1510)
Hero (t1490)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button calls t10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, Button calls t40.

Flop: (t120) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, Button calls t80.

Turn: (t280) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t120</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t240</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t520

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet more on the turn. As someone who played $50s and $55s for a long time, I would raise you almost every time because your bet screams weakness. By betting more, it costs him more to re-raise you. Think about it: would you bet 120 into a 280 pot with AK here too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I missed this.

[Kharlog]

Why is 3xBB raise from BB worse than 4xBB raise? I adjust my oop raise size/range according to my opponents calling frequency. 3xBB is standard for me but if opponent always calls then I'll quickly raise it to 3.5 or 4. Sometimes it may be as high as 5 or 6 if opponent is really station (and of course I'll raise only premium hands then).

I'd bet more on flop and more on turn. Something like 90-105 on the flop and 200 on turn. If then raised, fold without reads.

As played I think calling the minraise is correct and see what villain does on the river.

[HokieGreg]

Because you are giving villain 2:1 to have position on you

[Kharlog]

I know some very good players that raises to 3x from BB (for example Stoxtrader). At least they used to. I wonder why they did that if giving 2:1 for position is that bad...

[Vinetou]

Raise to 4BB is a standard raise preflop OOP. I like the bet on the flop, but after he calls you, you need to shut down. Betting on the turn is good, because you don't put him on an ace. If it was reraised pot, you would need to shut down. If you figure he is a retard who will call you on the turn with a draw, and then bluff if he doesn't hit, I go c/f because you don't know whether he has an ace or a missed draw.

It is a situation we all learn to hate, but no one learns how to deal with it completely. In your case without reads, I think your line is the best.

[HokieGreg]

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I know some very good players that raises to 3x from BB (for example Stoxtrader). At least they used to. I wonder why they did that if giving 2:1 for position is that bad...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not THAT bad. Giving villain 1.6:1 odds to call by raising 4 x bb just seems like the more +ev option oop.

[ChicagoRy]

I think the key is most people generally raise only with quality hands if villains are going to call a lot. Against better players that fold more hands to your limp raises, you can raise air or mix in some more hands, but generally you're going to want to only raise limps with strong hands.

Effective stack size to blinds should be a strong consideration, as well as how you feel you play against your opponent OOP in raised pots. But 3, 3.5, 4+ are all sizes I've used, depending on situation.

[TNixon]

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adjust my oop raise size/range according to my opponents calling frequency.

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This is *far* more correct than always raising 3x, or always raising 4x, or whatever.

4x is just a better "default" size when OOP, especially in the earlier levels, especially if you're only raising OOP with strong hands, which, again, should probably be the default play.

[HokieGreg]

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Saying 3 x bb in position and 4 x bb oop doesn't really work because you can make arguments to raise smaller amounts with certain stack sizes.

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