*official 2007 red sox thread*

[gehrig]

also calling ellsbury "a guy who put up a .738 ops in AAA this year" is kind of intellectually dishonest because theres no reason to ignore a quarter of his season which is equivalent to like a 1150 AAA ops. also guys like ellsbury that just put the ball in play every plate appearance dont lose as much when they jump up a level

[Lazy Meatball]

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pedro did a solid job, coco was hittin seeds all night, J-Va came through, and Paps closed it out.

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i dislike your acronyms, but I'm highly jealous of your free tickets story. When i went to Camden last month it was 80+% Sox Fans. I wonder if that numbers decreased now that the summer season's over.

[NT!]

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also guys like ellsbury that just put the ball in play every plate appearance dont lose as much when they jump up a level

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huh?

.314 / .390 /.426 in the minors... he's got nearly a 1:1 K:BB. are you trying to say 'Low SLG guys who don't strike out much?' because he has always had a good walk rate

[zer0]

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also calling ellsbury "a guy who put up a .738 ops in AAA this year" is kind of intellectually dishonest because theres no reason to ignore a quarter of his season which is equivalent to like a 1150 AAA ops. also guys like ellsbury that just put the ball in play every plate appearance dont lose as much when they jump up a level

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ok, well we're talking about a guy with 2 hr's and a .424 slg % (including his .600+ in AA) in the minors this year having a 30 at bat hot streak and replacing 2 proven veterans or a likely gold glove cf'er. i dont think i'm being "intellectually dishonest".

ellsbury will not lose most of his centerfield value, you are correct. problem is, his value is his speed and outfield defense, which would be lost as a corner outfielder in boston. his .335 minor league BABIP is much closer to what i'd expect in a full season compared to his current .424 BABIP (and, i'd expect his 2% k rate to climb closer to its normal level, while we're at it)

ellsbury is not an elite hitting prospect. theres nothing wrong with that, but when people are talking about putting him in a corner outfield spot, they do it with the expectation that he'd outperform jd drew's line this year, which would probably be his ceiling next year.

[MafiaPrince]

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I'm still trying to figure out where the power in the lineup is going to come from when Manny's contract expires and our outfield is Ellsbury/Coco/Drew.

First MLB outfield evar to hit less than 30 HR combined?

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I see us trading coco in the off-season..Ellsbury is definitely ready now and should start next season

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really, you SEE that happening? i will lay you decent odds that it doesn't happen....ill let you name a price and we can go from there.

i mean this will kill my bet, but why on gods green earth would the red sox want to trade crisp at this time? his #1 asset is his defense and defense has been shown to be vastly under appreciated by the large % of baseball teams. hes also fairly cheap and is probably a better hitter than we have seen. not to mention the other two starting OF's are either playing horrifically and/or have developed apparent habits of missing chunks of games at a time.

ellsbury can be on the 'bench'next year and still get 400 PA's w/o much trouble IMO.

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how many times have the red sox said they can get guys on the bench 400 bats like wily mo and hope to have them continue their development--granted wily mo this season did not warrant the at bats-- but they weren't even close. What makes Ellsbury different? Barring an injury getting a 4th outfielder 400 at bats is unlikely

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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jd drew's line this year, which would probably be his ceiling next year.

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uggh, when you put it like that, which I agree with, I'm much less excited [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Ellsbury just needs to play CF, where I think he would be reasonably close to Coco, and a whole bunch cheaper. trade Crisp & take his money and buy a big bat corner outfielder to replace Manny, either this year or next. I think that's an ok line.

or, just use that money along to help buy Arod. Sublime, I think that's a reason why you do it. Take Coco's $5m, Lowells $10m and Schillings $12m (I think those #'s are close) and you get close to the money it would take for Arod. You replace Coco with the nearly free Ellsbury, Lowell with Arod, and Schilling w/ Buchholz and you get younger and a lot better for not much $.

[MafiaPrince]

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jd drew's line this year, which would probably be his ceiling next year.

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uggh, when you put it like that, which I agree with, I'm much less excited [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Ellsbury just needs to play CF, where I think he would be reasonably close to Coco, and a whole bunch cheaper. trade Crisp & take his money and buy a big bat corner outfielder to replace Manny, either this year or next. I think that's an ok line.

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Exactly if the Red Sox feel Ellsbury is ready there is no real point in keeping Crisp. How would he fit in longterm? Use his trade value, which should be pretty high again after this season to get another piece..

[NT!]

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Ellsbury just needs to play CF, where I think he would be reasonably close to Coco, and a whole bunch cheaper. trade Crisp & take his money and buy a big bat corner outfielder to replace Manny, either this year or next. I think that's an ok line.


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do people not realize that coco is a very cheap CF for the quality he gives us? there is a good possibility that coco will be better both at the plate and in the field than ellsbury next year, and he is not expensive. saving 3 million a year by using ellsbury instead of crisp isn't going to land you anything, unless you want to play mark loretta in LF or something.

you're not going to get much for crisp in the offseason, especially with ellsbury knocking at the door. you'd be better off dealing ellsbury while his perceived value is very high.

or better yet, don't trade either of them, let ellsbury compete for a job in spring training and make a decision then.

[Uston]

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or, just use that money along to help buy Arod. Sublime, I think that's a reason why you do it. Take Coco's $5m, Lowells $10m and Schillings $12m (I think those #'s are close) and you get close to the money it would take for Arod. You replace Coco with the nearly free Ellsbury, Lowell with Arod, and Schilling w/ Buchholz and you get younger and a lot better for not much $.

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And don't forget Clement's $9.5M, Hinske's $3M, Timlin's $3M, and (I hope) Tavarez's $3.5M. It will cost the Sox very little to replace the performance they've gotten from these guys in 2007. I don't think they'll land ARod but it won't be because they can't afford him.

[MafiaPrince]

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Ellsbury just needs to play CF, where I think he would be reasonably close to Coco, and a whole bunch cheaper. trade Crisp & take his money and buy a big bat corner outfielder to replace Manny, either this year or next. I think that's an ok line.


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do people not realize that coco is a very cheap CF for the quality he gives us? there is a good possibility that coco will be better both at the plate and in the field than ellsbury next year, and he is not expensive. saving 3 million a year by using ellsbury instead of crisp isn't going to land you anything, unless you want to play mark loretta in LF or something.

you're not going to get much for crisp in the offseason, especially with ellsbury knocking at the door. you'd be better off dealing ellsbury while his perceived value is very high.

or better yet, don't trade either of them, let ellsbury compete for a job in spring training and make a decision then.

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we still have manny why would we have someone like Mark Loretta (who was an IF btw) playing there..