turn donk bet puzzles me,(yet I am lucid, (maybe not)) Live 20/40

signal · #1 10-31-2007, 08:42 PM

This post may be simple, but please answer it for me since I am trying not to suck at poker. I have been catching cards lately: suited Broadway connectors, premium pairs, etc, and have been raising a lot.

I open AQo in middle position. If I recall correctly, I have both blinds and one or two other assorted fools in the pot with me.

Flop: A 8 x

Flop Action: Blinds check to me, I bet, and I think one fold & one call and both blinds call.

Turn: 8 (the board pairs 8)

BB donks.

So I am trying not to suck as much, as noted earlier in this post, so I folded.

How is this play? IMO this is either a raise/fold or just fold. This bloke is not betting into me (with an A on the board), with 3 others to act behind w/o the trips, right?

I had been running good so I didn t want to spew it back being lagtarded....

FWIW, my read on the donk bettor is the following: handles chips awkwardly, slow to act, seems confused following action, a non-regular. From my quick assessment he seemed loose passive with some weak-tight tendencies thrown in. He has only been at the table for about an orbit or two prior to this and got into a raise fest with another guy. The other guy started berating the donk bettor & he seemed genuine (since it looked like he was defending his intellect, strategy, etc) when he said he made quad 7s (in a previous hand, not the when I posted here).

n.s. · #2 10-31-2007, 09:13 PM

I think the fold is probably good, based on your read (unless BB is *really* new to poker).

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IMO this is either a raise/fold or just fold.

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This I disagree with. If we aren't folding, there's nothing wrong with just calling here. Unless x is a 7 or 9, or there's a flush draw out that you failed to mention, then most of the time when you are ahead your opponents are drawing to just 2 outs. Calling can keep players in that are way behind you, encourages BB to keep betting his worse hand, and saves you money when you are behind.

BadBigBabar · #3 10-31-2007, 10:22 PM

i call here and i don't think it's close. trip 8s would c/r it seems like. raising blows him off a bluff or gets us owned by better hands.

RobA · #4 11-01-2007, 09:38 AM

That's a tough spot. I think you did fine. After the pre-flop and flop action it sounds like there is 16SB/8BB in the pot. If the villain donks the turn and river, you have to put in 2BB to try and win 10BB (assuming the guy behind you folds the turn). You have to be good in a call down more than 1 in 6 times to make money (somebody check my math please).

So do you think your AQ is good more than 16% here? Would he donk with a weak A, or some other random pair that he was calling the flop light with? You've only see him play for 2 orbits, so maybe?

probably not - i think you're good more like 10%. curious what others think this number is...

Mr Rick · #5 11-01-2007, 09:48 AM

I am calling this down.

There are 8 big bets in at this point so its about 4.5:1 to call through the river assuming both other players fold and BB bets the river too.

This is a smart play by BB with a weaker A because you aren't likely to raise him with 88 on the board. He is calling your two bets anyway - if he were to check - and he gains if you have a PP and were going to check behind on the turn - or, of course, if he gets you to fold a bigger A.

Having said that, there are some players I will fold to in this situation - but I would have to know them well or be making a read at the time. Your read makes it closer but I would still call.

BeakWetter · #6 11-01-2007, 12:16 PM

I call this down too.
Folding to a relatively unknown here with the odds is too weak IMO. Throw your cards in the muck if raised by anyone else.

If I'm BB in this situation I occasionally lead a weaker A on the turn into a field of 3 hoping to get a stronger A to fold (extremely game dependent). Not to steal your post, does anyone strongly like or dislike this play as the BB (assuming we fold to a raise and c/f river if it bricks)?

MitchL · #7 11-01-2007, 06:08 PM

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i call here and i don't think it's close. trip 8s would c/r it seems like. raising blows him off a bluff or gets us owned by better hands.

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Imo its closer to a raise than a fold if sb is still in. A fold for 1 bet here is terrible. Bad players love to donk in these spots for some reason. Also it becomes an easy fold to a 3 bet, but they will call down w/ a bad ace.

BadBigBabar · #8 11-01-2007, 06:23 PM

mitch - i said call, not fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

MitchL · #9 11-01-2007, 06:25 PM

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mitch - i said call, not fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I know, I shouldve done the ole' call>>>raise>>>fold.

Jeffage · #10 11-01-2007, 06:33 PM

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This bloke is not betting into me (with an A on the board), with 3 others to act behind w/o the trips, right?

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It depends who he is and how he would play an 8 on the flop and after turning trips. He very well may bet a decent ace here figuring the eight will prevent him from being reraised or just liking his hand. Or he might be the type to never bet out without an 8. Or he might be the type that would donk an ace but go for a sandbag with an 8.

I probably raise the turn against typical opponents given your position. You can fold if reraised - if just the BB calls you can prob. bet for value if checked to on the end. Some details about the caller behind would help.

Jeff