Shooting Fish

Second Toughest · #1 11-25-2007, 09:40 PM

This post is about trying to get some action from a couple of fish at the table. I usually follow standard hand guides as to when to limp, call, raise, etc. pre-flop, but think the situation below needs some adjustment.

I'd appreciate any advice on which of these hands I should play and whether I should call or raise.

Many thanks.

Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (9 handed)

Fish 1: VPIP 54.2%, AF 0.67 over 24 hands
Fish 2: VPIP 56.6%, AF 2.2 over 76 hands

Hand 1
Fish 1 is UTG+1, Fish 2 is SB
Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Fish 1 calls, 2 folds, Hero ?

My thoughts: If I raise Fish 2 will definately call, as will Fish 1. Do I really want to be up against 2 opponents on the flop with 77? If I don't raise, I'll be up against 3. Is folding too weak?

Hand 2
Fish 1 is MP1, Fish 2 is BB
(UTG+1 has VPIP 23.3%, PFR: 5.4%, Agg 0.93 over 129 hands)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, Hero?

My thoughts: Pre-flop aggressor has high standards. Fish 2 will almost certainly see the flop so if I call I'll be up against 2 opponents with a difficult hand? Is this a fight I want? Is folding too weak?

Hand 3:
Fish 1 is MP2, Fish 2 is UTG
Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Fish 2 calls, 2 folds, Fish 1 calls, 2 folds, Hero ?

My thoughts: I have a reasonable hand and good position, but is it good enough to raise and try to isolate the Fishies?

kbdunn · #2 11-25-2007, 09:51 PM

1) raise or call is pretty close depending on how bad they play

2) thats pretty low PFR for villain, id be inclined to call and hope to drag some other cold callers in the hand. You are most likely up against TT+.

3) this is a close fold depending on how bad the two limpers play. A9o is pretty weak, and it would depend also on how tight the blinds are.

DavidC · #3 11-25-2007, 11:22 PM

I don't think I understand... why do you think someone with only 54% vpip will definitely call?

Smurph64 · #4 11-25-2007, 11:35 PM

iso raise attempt with hand 1

iso/value raise attempt hand 2

value raise hand 3

Dankenstein · #5 11-25-2007, 11:36 PM

Raise hand one. If they cold call with a huge range it is probably for value.

I fold hand 2. The raiser's PFR% is a strong indicator that you're probably not in a good spot to coldcall with pocket 9s. If you do want to continue with the hand you should probably 3-bet, but I personally would fold here.

I raise hand 3 to isolate and for value if I know the "fishies" limp with a lot of hands.

neurotiq · #6 11-26-2007, 01:43 AM

Raise hand 1.

Fold hand 2 (5.4% PFR isn't pretty for our nines).

Fold hand 3.

TimovieMan · #7 11-27-2007, 06:37 AM

*grunch*

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1
Fish 1 is UTG+1, Fish 2 is SB
Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Fish 1 calls, 2 folds, Hero ?

My thoughts: If I raise Fish 2 will definately call, as will Fish 1. Do I really want to be up against 2 opponents on the flop with 77? If I don't raise, I'll be up against 3. Is folding too weak?

[/ QUOTE ]
I’d say raise.
If you raise or not, both fish are coming along anyway. A pocket pair is likely to be ahead of anything in their range, but raising also has the benefit of folding out the button and the BB, and it gives you initiative.
So raising is actually for value against worse hands, it buys the button and thus gives you all the position that you’ll need, and you limit the field to 3 which also improves pocket pairs (you want these either HU or against a large field, and 3-way against fish while in position is really not that bad, though you’d prefer HU). And you’ll have initiative, so they’ll likely check through to you on the flop…

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2
Fish 1 is MP1, Fish 2 is BB
(UTG+1 has VPIP 23.3%, PFR: 5.4%, Agg 0.93 over 129 hands)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, Hero?

My thoughts: Pre-flop aggressor has high standards. Fish 2 will almost certainly see the flop so if I call I'll be up against 2 opponents with a difficult hand? Is this a fight I want? Is folding too weak?

[/ QUOTE ]
I’m NEVER calling in this spot. Coldcalling is generally bad, and even more so if you’re the first one to do it.
All depends on reads of UTG+1. What does he raise in this position? AK, AQ, KQ? Or only TT+?
If he raises only TT+ from there, I’m folding, if there’s a good chance he goes with AJ+ and KQ, I’m raising.
You’ll have position on him if you raise, you’re likely folding out everyone else for HU. And if fish 2 decides to come along, he’s only going to be dead money anyway.
Raise or fold, depending on UTG+1. I actually prefer raising, since UTG+1 isn’t all that aggressive postflop, and we’ll have position and initiative (unless he caps and bets out).

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3:
Fish 1 is MP2, Fish 2 is UTG
Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Fish 2 calls, 2 folds, Fish 1 calls, 2 folds, Hero ?

My thoughts: I have a reasonable hand and good position, but is it good enough to raise and try to isolate the Fishies?

[/ QUOTE ]
A9o works better against fewer opponents, so raise it to isolate the fish. You’re likely ahead of their range, AND you can outplay them postflop, and in position no less.
Raise it up!

LukeSLTS · #8 11-27-2007, 10:51 AM

Hand 1: Raise

Hand 2: Raise (close to a fold)

Hand 3: Fold (close to a raise)

I never worry about trying lure a fish in when I don't have a powerhouse hand. With the 77 you can raise and the second fish may call anyways. With 99 and an UTG raiser you need to play aggressively to increase you chance of taking down the pot. Leave A9o for the fish. There are too many problems playing a hand like this.