A coincidence that bothers me

[vhawk01]

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No. Astronomical long shots are expected to come in. There are so many different measurements and observations we can make in the universe that it would be strange if some of them were not weird coincidences.

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I agree that the universe is so large and there is so much to observe and measure and that we should expect to see longshots come in. However in this case we have seen a parlay of longshots come in. First is the longshot of life originating on this planet. The second longshot is life on this planet developing intelligence. The third longshot is the improbable coincidence of the same relative sizes of the disc of the moon and the disc of the sun from the perspective of the intelligent life on this planet.

After enough longshots parlay, I don't think its unreasonable to start doubting its just the result of chance. Do you?

Stu

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Don't forget the parlay of keyboards being invented, or calculators, or the Arabic numeral system.

[bunny]

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I dont even see what the coincidence is. My hand "exactly covers the sun" if I hold it up in front of my face. Anything, of any size (bigger than your pupil) will if it's close enough - and the moon isnt at some exact distance to make this happen - could be more, could be less, it would still cover the sun. What's the stellar coincidence?

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The coincidence is the disc of the sun is the same relative size as the disc of the moon from the perspective of an earthbound observer. Its why during a total solar eclipse the surface of the sun is completely covered but features emanating from the surface(corona, prominences, etc) are not.

You can of course make your thumb appear to be the same relative size as the disc of the sun. You would have to make the decision to place your thumb at the specific distance away from your eye so that your thumb exactly covers the surface of the sun, but does not cover features emanating from that surface. If you left the distance up to chance you would likely go blind before achieving success.

Astronomers attribute this feature of a total solar eclispe as the occurence of improbable happenstance.

Stu

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But I dont think this is true. If it were, the shadow on the Earth's surface in that photo would be an exact point. It isnt it's a region of darkness, the reason being that the distance isnt exact at all. The moon could move further away and the area of the shadow would shrink, the moon could move closer and it would grow bigger. There's nothing special about where it is - optical effects not withstanding. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

There's nothing particularly special about the size of the shadow. If it exactly covered the Earth's surface (so the earth was in total darkness) or exactly met at a point (so only one specific point experienced a total eclipse) then it might be unusual. As it is, it's nothing remarkable - it's just somewhere within the range which causes total solar eclipses.

EDIT: Do you have an astronomy link or citation where this is explained? I'm just not getting it...

[Stu Pidasso]

Hi Bunny,

This is the same link I put in another post in this thread.
Science@NASA

As you can tell from the below example of text from the site, its dumbed down for simpletons like me.

"If the Moon were slightly smaller than the Sun, the best eclipses would be annular ones with no dramatic corona or blackening of the daytime sky. If the Moon were slightly larger, the full glory of the chromosphere and prominences surrounded by the glowing corona would be lost. Fortunately, the Moon is "just right." "

stu

[bunny]

Thanks for the link. Personally, I still dont find it a remarkable coincidence, since there's such a wide variation in possible distances between the moon and the earth which would result in the occurence of total eclipses. At least I understand the point though.

[FoldALot.]

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Its why during a total solar eclipse the surface of the sun is completely covered but features emanating from the surface(corona, prominences, etc) are not.

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WELL THEN EXPLAIN THIS PICTURE TO ME. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[FoldALot.]

Also, about the Proto-Moon/Earth collision being a "very lucky shot":

Sure, if it happened differently we would not be living on this this planet right now.
But, the fact that we ARE living on this planet right now means the collision had to happen exactly as it was. Else there would be no one here able to notice the "lucky shot" and discuss about it.
Therefore, we know nothing about how random the event actually was. Collisions will have occured millions and millions of times in the universe, but if this configuration is the only one that can lead to intelligent life then it will be the only one that gets noticed and analysed.

[JammyDodga]

I'll bite, where does god come from then? Surely the chance of an all powerful creator springing fully formed from nothing with the power to create the universe is much more improbably than the moon just covering the sun during an eclipse?

Or do we need to explain the universe and questions in science, but you don't have to explain god... That's hardly an even playing field

[kurto]

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Also, about the Proto-Moon/Earth collision being a "very lucky shot":

Sure, if it happened differently we would not be living on this this planet right now.
But, the fact that we ARE living on this planet right now means the collision had to happen exactly as it was. Else there would be no one here able to notice the "lucky shot" and discuss about it.
Therefore, we know nothing about how random the event actually was. Collisions will have occured millions and millions of times in the universe, but if this configuration is the only one that can lead to intelligent life then it will be the only one that gets noticed and analysed.

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Its true... of the billions upon billions of people on the Earth, what are the odds that I would have married my wife? There are so many things that had to happen precisely at the right time for me to have met her and everything that led to our marriage. Yet, it did happen and it only seems unlikely if you look at it that way. Every day very unlikely things are happening. Its quite probable that they will.

None of which require an omnipotent creature manipulating things.

[Stu Pidasso]

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WELL THEN EXPLAIN THIS PICTURE TO ME

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Hi FoldAlot,

The picture you posted is of an annular solar eclipse, not a total solar eclipse.

Stu

[vhawk01]

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WELL THEN EXPLAIN THIS PICTURE TO ME

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Hi FoldAlot,

The picture you posted is of an annular solar eclipse, not a total solar eclipse.

Stu

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So a total solar eclipse is total?