Live NL pre-flop raise sizing

[BrunoThePug]

I've never played live no-limit before. When I play online I use the 4xBB + 1BB per limper rule.

I'm going to be staying/playing at Treasure island who spreads a $1/$3 NL game. If I'm open raising I would raise to $12 using my standard pre-flop raise size rule. But it seems like while playing live making a $12 bet when most people are going to have stacks of $5 chips and some $1s for the blinds, will slow the game down.

I've also heard that most live games have much larger pre-flop raises, say 6xBB, or that some people just always raise to some set amount. Should I just observe the table for an orbit and see how it goes and raise what everyone else is raising or should I stick with the rule I'm used to using when playing online?

[Reko Savinen]

See what happens for a round or two.

I don't play no limit hold 'em, but I've watched my best friend play the $1/2 game at Foxwoods and it's no unusual to see pre-flop raises of $35 or so. I once saw a guy make it $75 and then get pissed off when no one called his aces (he slammed it down on the table, it was hilarious).

[jjshabado]

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I don't play no limit hold 'em, but I've watched my best friend play the $1/2 game at Foxwoods and it's no unusual to see pre-flop raises of $35 or so. I once saw a guy make it $75 and then get pissed off when no one called his aces (he slammed it down on the table, it was hilarious).

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Ok, thats a bit excessive for an opening raise at 1/2.

Depends on the table. I find most tables are between 12 and 20 dollars. Which is great because you can raise to 5 and people just treat it as limping. Lets you build some nice pots.

[pig4bill]

Just watch and see how the game is playing. Oftentimes, games play differently. If you get a hand before you get a chance to observe, limp and call a raise.

[nycplayer]

In the places in NYC, a $12-15 raise will get 5 callers, a $17-20 raise will get 3, and a $25 raise will get no callers if you have TT-AA, but if you have AK you'll get one caller with pocket 7s and he'll push, and it will hold up.

[tommyrotten]

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In the places in NYC, a $12-15 raise will get 5 callers, a $17-20 raise will get 3, and a $25 raise will get no callers if you have TT-AA, but if you have AK you'll get one caller with pocket 7s and he'll push, and it will hold up.

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Sounds about right for L.A., too

[Albert Moulton]

Raise the amount that will most likely achieve the SPR that you are interested in playing post-flop.

Min-raises don't get punished much by light reraisers in most of the live games I've played. Instead, they get treated like straddles. So, if you min-raise with a mid-sized pair, you'll probably only get reraised by AK/QQ-AA, and otherwise you just build a big pot in case you flop a set.

Large raises when you have AK/QQ-AA frequently get called by small pairs and suited aces calling to "see a flop" without good implied odds.

3-bet a little light to isolate short stack reraisers who go all in. For example, you raise in MP to 5bb with a hand like 99 or AQs, you get 3 callers to the BB who goes all in for 20bb, and its folded back to you. At this point, the shorty usually has any pair, AT-AK, and any suited broadways, so reraise to 60bb in order to fold out the two callers behind you. You'll be coin flipping over the original cold callers' dead money most of the time.

What you don't want to do, is auto-raise some fixed amount just to end up OOP with QQ and an SPR of 13 on a low-coordinated flop vs some triky guy in LP. He'll just make you miserable on the turn or river.

So, I would recommend a wide mix of raise sizes with the goal of manipulating the size of the pot to make your own play easier post flop.

The 5/5 NL 1000 buy in at Ocean's 11 sees raises anywhere from a min-raise to $150 (usually in a reraised pot) get callers pretty frequently. $20 - $40 is typical. $50 open raises are also pretty common for LAGs out for a night of gambling.

[nightlyraver]

Here is what my experience has taught me:

First, don't worry one bit about slowing the game down by raising odd amounts. Most dealers are very quick at making change. If you open for $12, it won't faze a soul.

Second, I have seen the absolute most common raise to be 5xBB and most people don't adjust for added limpers.

Third, people are MUCH looser about calling raises in a casino. If you make a big raise with a big hand you will probably get called by the same donks who would have called a 5xBB raise.

Fourth, you should tend to value bet more often in a casino game and give less credence to small raises. I see people calling value bets and even making small raises 'to find out where they are' with some pretty weak hands in casino games. Punish these people!

Fifth, you should be more careful about trying to buy the pot preflop. Personally, I make plays at the pot preflop about 50x as often online as in a live game, simply due to the fact that it almost never works in a casino. In fact, if you simply removed the 'preflop steal' play from your arsenal in a casino game, you probably aren't giving up much. Simply put, assume your preflop raises will get called, probably by 2 or more people unless the raise is huge, and even then it could get called by many people.

Most importantly, do not just raise a 'standard raise' or anything like that. As some have already pointed out, make the raise that will produce the size pot that you would like to play. If you have not already done so, read Sklansky and Miller's chapter in No Limit Hold'em on sizing your preflop raises. I cannot stress how much more important this concept is in a casino game, mostly due to the fact that no one is trying to figure out what your different sized raises mean and the fact that most preflop raises are called and you will have to play postflop.

[Dan87]

standard raise at 1/2 is $10. If someone raises to $15 or higher it screams pocket pair 88+, its amazing how the $5 difference in raise tells so much. This is just my experience though.

[surfinillini]

[ QUOTE ]
standard raise at 1/2 is $10. If someone raises to $15 or higher it screams pocket pair 88+, its amazing how the $5 difference in raise tells so much. This is just my experience though.

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wat?