WSOP qualifier... should I have played it like I did?

[BubbaBoy89]

I'll post the hand history at the very end for those that like to see the information that way, but I'll explain the situation first and would like to see what you think I and him have before you actually know it...

I haven't posted before and usually figure my own out, but I can't figure this one out for sure, I still think I did right though... Thanks in advance for your time and any advice and thoughts!!!


40 players left out of the original 170, $322 buy-in that I satellited into for cheap... when this hand came I had JUST gotten up to the average last round with a BB hand against the SB that hit the river but was checked to give me a nice opportunity to bet, giving me an M of around 11... 40 players left, blinds increasing, top 4 get the 12k WSOP package

200/400 blinds, with a 50 ante
Button is chip leader with 25k
I'm at 11.8k and SB
BB is at 1.4k

Everyone folds to the button, the chip leader, who min raises to 800.. I'm SB... the BB barely has enough for another round... So the button min raises, the table had been fairly weak and folding lately... so I reraise to 2500, BB goes all-in for less than that, the Button just calls me, which he was more than getting odds for at this point

The flop comes 3 5 3 rainbow... I go all-in for my remaining 9348, into a pot of around 7.5k

What hand would you put me on here?
What cards would you need to call me?
Your still chip leader with a couple people near you if you fold, having invested 2.5k from your 26k
If you call and lose your down to 14k with the average at 12.5k, blinds about to increase, 40 players left, top 4 getting entry...

Turns out he had pocket 7s.. would you call with those?
Would you think you had me beat, and would it be worth the risk?

I actually had Ace 5 unsuited, so had hit "top pair", I know on that board its a small hit, with an ace to back me up

Side pot of around 1.6k, but I wanted to isolate... and the BB was 6-5 so would have hit 2 pair and I would have lost it anyways, but with his situation that really isn't a factor to my decision.. I felt good against his basically forced hand...

I couldn't bet less than all-in... would you have tried to check? Leaving you with 9k if the button bet... with blinds increasing to make it 1200 a round, giving you an M of less than 9...

There was no read on me to say I was loose, he had only been at the table for about 10 hands, the only hand he saw me play was the unraised BB vs SB which I won with a check on the flop, bet on the turn that was called when I had a open ended straight and flush draw that hit on the river, then a decent callable bet on the river...

Is there anything in that that would say a pair of 7s was still good? I would have played Queens the EXACT same way, possibly jacks and kings as well... 8s through 10s I would have made the pre-flop raise there, possibly higher, and most likely pushed the same way on that flop... I'm of the mind that he made the right move, but with the information he had that it was actually a pretty bad call on his part... am I wrong?



Hand History for those that like them:

Full Tilt Poker Game #1936328898: WSOP Tuesday Qualifier (14215523), Table 18 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:48:46 ET - 2007/03/06
Seat 1: Deraz (17,240)
Seat 2: HighRising (26,430)
Seat 4: BubbaBoy89 (11,898)
Seat 5: eskimovenom (1,480)
Seat 6: Howdoiplayxx (9,555)
Seat 7: Buckohfive (16,290)
Seat 8: TallThinMan (3,799)
Seat 9: ctsurg430 (14,920)
Deraz antes 50
HighRising antes 50
BubbaBoy89 antes 50
eskimovenom antes 50
Howdoiplayxx antes 50
Buckohfive antes 50
TallThinMan antes 50
ctsurg430 antes 50
BubbaBoy89 posts the small blind of 200
eskimovenom posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BubbaBoy89 [5c Ad]
Howdoiplayxx folds
Buckohfive folds
TallThinMan folds
ctsurg430 folds
Deraz folds
HighRising raises to 800
BubbaBoy89 raises to 2,500
eskimovenom calls 1,030, and is all in
HighRising calls 1,700
*** FLOP *** [3h 5d 3s]
BubbaBoy89 bets 9,348, and is all in
HighRising calls 9,348
BubbaBoy89 shows [5c Ad]
eskimovenom shows [6c 5s]
HighRising shows [7d 7h]
*** TURN *** [3h 5d 3s] [6h]
*** RIVER *** [3h 5d 3s 6h] [Ks]
BubbaBoy89 shows two pair, Fives and Threes
HighRising shows two pair, Sevens and Threes
HighRising wins the side pot (20,836) with two pair, Sevens and Threes
eskimovenom shows two pair, Sixes and Fives
HighRising wins the main pot (4,690) with two pair, Sevens and Threes
GMFC7 (Observer): WOW NICE HAND HIGH
eskimovenom stands up
BubbaBoy89 stands up

[rafiki]

Can you give more information about the raiser ? That would help figure out a resteal line. Was he raising a few times every orbit ? To what amounts ? I'm not the biggest fan of A5o as a resteal hand, but there are those who would disagree. Also if you're going to make that move there, you have to know that the table is going to see your A5o, since BB is calling there with a huge range. Also when I'm going to resteal, I'm going to put maximum pressure on the original raiser (so I'll probably push). But I have a feeling he's the kind of guy who is calling with 77 there.

[wheatrich]

You can't get most minraisers off overpairs.

My favorite line of yours was with the information he had he made a bad call. There are enough people that'll play any two cards the exact same way.

[BubbaBoy89]

He was at the table for about 20 hands. He played 2 of those hands, one as the unraised BB where he played it hard with high cards on the flop so its a good chance he hit something there or was trying to chase someone away. The other he limped in and folded to pressure.

I'd been fairly quiet as well, with the only 2 hands he saw having me as the BB and checking the flop... and a raise 3x the BB mid-position where I checked the flop and folded to a bet.

So this is the third hand he played out of the 20 he was at my table for, and was on the button and a min raise. Min raises I see on the button have usually been a weak steal attempt with a medium pair, or a high pair not wanting to chase someone out.

With the BB pretty much needing to make a move, the min raise looked like something I was supposed to call, have the BB getting great odds and move all in, then the button come over the top of me, making me fold while contributing a little extra to the pot. So I put him on a medium pair like he had.

So the time he had been there, no, no raises. And having the table see my ace-5 wouldn't be a proble, because if I won the hand I could sit back with enough chips to wait for a decent hand to play next time, and if I lost the hand my next move would be an all-in when I picked up a hand I wanted to be called with, which I could wait a little for and let my stack dwindle a smidgen, because I would expect to be called and be needing a double up anyways.

If I didn't hit the 5 I may have checked, but most likely not... I felt he was near the hand he had, and I expected a fold to two shows of strength... I couldn't bet less than all-in without crippling my stack so it wasn't like a huge overbet

Would you have made the call with a mid pair? I know it's getting to me more because thats the same way I would have played higher pairs than his, and thats what I was playing my hand as, more than the actual cards I had... He had the chips to wait till about 20 of the 40 dropped out, and had been waiting and tight from the few hands I had seen... I wasn't playing to have my cards beat him, I was playing to have a medium pair fold to a higher pair... I know that my cards would be seen after he folded his hand if he did, but then I would use that new image to my advantage when I played again.

Would you have smooth called? Then the BB would have gone all-in, with at least a call from the button.. so even though it was 400 more to call the min raise, it was really a bet of 1400 total that the BB had...

I could have folded... but I didn't want to encourage future steals by folding to a min raise while the blinds were getting to a level to really hurt me, especially if the BB folded after me, since he wasn't getting as good of odds.. the blinds were just increasing, so it would have left me with an M around 9, so if I didn't get any cards that round, I'd expect another raise from the same guy, if not someone else, on my next round of blinds, which would have hurt me even more if I didn't have cards...

Is that a valid worry/expectation?


Plus I didn't want to push more than my 2500.. any more would have had me needing to go all-in next bet if I was re-raised... so my raise amount was to determine if he had the medium pair I thought, or 10s-Qs, which I would expect a re-raise out of that I would have folded to.

With just the call I figured medium pair, which I figured would fold, or Ace-k/j

[BubbaBoy89]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't get most minraisers off overpairs.

My favorite line of yours was with the information he had he made a bad call. There are enough people that'll play any two cards the exact same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Favorite line in a good way or bad? lol

With the level of the tourney, the buy-in, the prize money, 40/170 left, him as the fairly new chip leader and seemingly tight... I guess I just put him on enough skill to fold what may possibly be the best hand, but is most likely beaten and not worth the risk.


Plus 8 outta 10 times times I have the hand I think I'm representing there, and have an overpair that has his 7s dominated... so that just has me thinking too much about this hand wondering if maybe I shoulnd't have made this move and waited or...

[rafiki]

My advice, and you can take it for what it's worth. If you've only got 20 hands on the guy, and you can't get much of a read on what his minraise means there, then why not fold A5o. It's def not a great hand to be restealing with, especially when you can't get any information out of what his raise means. If he's that much deeper then you, I'd take the next orbit to try and improve your information on the villain. But who knows, maybe I'm not aggro enough. I just like as much information as I can get.

[skunkperfume]

[ QUOTE ]
My advice, and you can take it for what it's worth. If you've only got 20 hands on the guy, and you can't get much of a read on what his minraise means there, then why not fold A5o. It's def not a great hand to be restealing with, especially when you can't get any information out of what his raise means. If he's that much deeper then you, I'd take the next orbit to try and improve your information on the villain. But who knows, maybe I'm not aggro enough. I just like as much information as I can get.

[/ QUOTE ]

id wait for a better time and place to make that move, not againest the chip leader, and you only see him play a few hands. Play like that work againest people in the same chip situation as you, typically. Plus its only fives, to many draws, and hole cards can beat that.

[BubbaBoy89]

I know there's many hands that COULD beat my hand, but it was a fold I was looking for... was I wrong to expect a mid-pocket pair to fold? It was into the chip leader.. but it was for half his chips and there's just as many hands that COULD be beating his mid pocket pair