TT first hand at table!

Jay_Whufc · #1 10-29-2007, 12:11 PM

What range do you put SB on Ama?

ama0330 · #2 10-29-2007, 12:25 PM

Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

IlPug · #3 10-29-2007, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

Jay_Whufc · #4 10-29-2007, 12:39 PM

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Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

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Im with you, using Amas range, Im weighting it 10 / 60-80 / 20-40 with the most important part being 10% for the premium range, Im quite sure they have a premium hand no where near 65% here

IlPug · #5 10-29-2007, 12:43 PM

i dont know, if they're really bad, they could be doing it more often than 10% i think, im just trying to see his reasoning here, so i can make a decision myself, atm, its pretty close, even if that makes me a flip-flopper after my earlier post.

ama0330 · #6 10-29-2007, 12:46 PM

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Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im with you, using Amas range, Im weighting it 10 / 60-80 / 20-40 with the most important part being 10% for the premium range, Im quite sure they have a premium hand no where near 65% here

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we know quite literally nothing about our opponent other than that he has played the hand poorly. what we DO know is that he has put half his stack in the pot and likely wants to put the rest in also. now he might be dumb, but given that we know nothing about him we have to assume that he's got at least AQs+, in my opinion. I can almost completely discount hands like 77-88.

Jay_Whufc · #7 10-29-2007, 12:57 PM

Not that it really matters, I shoved figuring to be in a coinflip (with money in pot making it +EV) and quite sure I was not crushed all that often, he had A6o, turned an Ace, nice.
I suppose it comes down to a matter of opinion really.
I have seen this kind of play made by so much crap, like any Ace, 2 broadway cards, mid PP etc that I was quite happy to get it in here.
Also, I think wslees posts are very good, especially the point about the first raise being a min raise, if UTG raises to 4BB and everyone else calls, I think Im much more inclined to just call.

IlPug · #8 10-29-2007, 12:58 PM

ama,

i've agreed with you so far, and i have to say i'm probably in your boat, if only marginally, for the fact that i dont think i would want to gamble in this spot right now. i don't know if we can just abt discount smaller PPs, a dumbass might play it this way (limping for 'set-value', then reraising figuring they're ahead and scared of playing the hand post flop), and we cant really rule out SB as a dumb ass. i also dont think he's making this play with premium hands 65% of the time, but think its probably more than 10%. so, is your reasoning that, because he's dumb, he's gonna have AQs+ more often than a smaller PP? and why?

again, im just trying to see your line of thinking so i can make up my own.

ama0330 · #9 10-29-2007, 01:02 PM

I don't know. Im a pessimist?

There are so many reasons that someone could play a hand like this, "he's a retard" being only one of them. When I play poker I like to take information from as many different sources as possible to form a coherent whole, which I can then act on. This line is no specific hand, it is up to how you feel about the situation, and I feel like its a mandatory fold. I like to give total unknowns the benefit of the doubt as I think that 100bb is too much to pay for a read.

bravos1 · #10 10-29-2007, 02:39 PM

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Three groups - premium hands (jj+, AKs) mid strength hands (mid pairs, AQs, AJs) and crap (Ace-nothing, air, 76s etc)

There are two relevant factors here. One is that no matter what his holding he has played the hand terribly, and the second is that we know nothing about him at all. For that reason I weight his range as 65/25/10 for good/med/crap.

given that with this assigned weighting we are behind or flipping with overcards 90% of the time its an easy fold for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is it 65 with premium hands? While I'm not sure if I agree with the other posters, I am inclined to think that his range is more likely a mid-strength hand. Can you explain your reasoning here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im with you, using Amas range, Im weighting it 10 / 60-80 / 20-40 with the most important part being 10% for the premium range, Im quite sure they have a premium hand no where near 65% here

[/ QUOTE ]

we know quite literally nothing about our opponent other than that he has played the hand poorly. what we DO know is that he has put half his stack in the pot and likely wants to put the rest in also. now he might be dumb, but given that we know nothing about him we have to assume that he's got at least AQs+, in my opinion. I can almost completely discount hands like 77-88.

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AMA.. why are you discounting hands like 77-88 here so much? I can discount AA/KK here much more. SB is almost closing the action w/ just you left to act. He is very rarely just smooth calling here PF w/ AA/KK and wanting to see a flop 4 handed. IMO, this is typically 55-99, ATs+, AJo+ far more often than JJ+.