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#21
11-03-2007, 07:42 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
[ QUOTE ]
Now, if you bet (and get called), then check-raise a blank turn is a good line. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree. The board is way too draw heavy to allow villain a chance to check behind if you're going to bet the flop. 
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#23
11-03-2007, 07:45 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
Thanks SABR and CDL. I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts.
Honestly, I don't feel I've trapped myself all that much, but that may have more to do with specific reads at the time, specific situations, some luck and some selective memory. I think where I've had success with this is with villains that interpret checks as weakness and will fire with a pretty wide range. Arguably more laggish and less taggish. I am more than willing to accept that better tags in better games than I play won't fire twice here and that now you're not as happy about the c/c,c/r.
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#24
11-03-2007, 07:48 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
Is it safe to assume you raise to 4x in this example QTip? That makes the pot 9.25 BB or so on the flop after rake. I would usually bet 8 BB on the flop.
Also, I really think it matters how we define good TAG. In NL50 terms I think anything other than a standard cbet here is pretty bad/unnecessary. At NL200+ the TAG regs are a whole lot better and there are other viable options, but mainly this spot sucks so its good that you don't have JJ-KK and get flops like this vs. good players too often because its pretty tough to profit in this spot vs. a legitimately good player imo.
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#25
11-03-2007, 07:49 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I just cbet here and usually felt. I feel like its much less exploitable to bet/3bet here than to bet/fold and checking is going to put you in a weird spot. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I think auto-felting here is far more exploitable than bet/folding. [/ QUOTE ] explain please? If you bet/fold this then you're basically bet/folding your whole range with the exception of big hearts and sets. A set is definitely not the majority of your cbetting range. It would be pretty easy to profit off of raising this everytime assuming you fold everything but 66, 77, 88, 99 and AhKh, AhQh, KhQh. [/ QUOTE ] QQ is not a very strong hand on this board. If you auto-felt here you're going to get it in badly most of the time. And you can't profit by auto-raising my c-bet here because my opening range is looser than most players, so I can easily show up with sets, two pair, T9s, A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] etc... Also, QQ is not the same as AA here.
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#26
11-03-2007, 07:59 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
[ QUOTE ]
I gave him a range of 55+, 3d4d, JdTd, AdKd, AdQd, and suited c's 54 to 9T and we're a 61/39 dog. Check/call? This blows but bet/fold blows too because its so exploitable. We almost never have a set on this board when we raise from EP. This is why I LRR preflop. [/ QUOTE ] How can you narrow his range to those specific flush draws (AdQd, etc) based solely on a preflop call? Surely he is just as likely to have AsQs or AcQc. I believe a more realistic range for a flat-calling TAG in the CO is 55 - TT, 65s-TJs, AQs along with JJ+, AKo, AKs discounted by 2/3 because he will usually reraise those preflop. Versus that range are almost even money.
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#27
11-03-2007, 08:04 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
[ QUOTE ]
How can you narrow his range to those specific flush draws (AdQd, etc) based solely on a preflop call? Surely he is just as likely to have AsQs or AcQc. [/ QUOTE ] My bad, I was unclear. The range I gave was flop-raise range. lol "I think he calls AdQd preflop but not AsQs because he knows spades never get there." LOL
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#29
11-03-2007, 08:55 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
why is check/call so bad? Don't we want to keep the pot small with marginal made hands?
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#30
11-03-2007, 09:18 PM
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Re: I\'m Always Stuck Here
I'd bet 3/4 pot, and fold to a raise.
If called, I'd risk giving a free card and check the turn. Whether c/f or c/c depends on what the card is and how much he bets. Basically, if I don't win with the continuation bet, then I'm usually slightly ahead of big draws, or way behind 2-pairs and sets. It seems unlikely that a "good tag" will overplay a mid-sized overpair here, like JJ. And I doubt he's going to play back at us with air very often. So, if he's still around after the cb, then we should be looking to get to the river cheaply, or else get out with our 1-pair OOP on this coordinated board and a rapidly expanding pot size.
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