10NL flopped trips, everybody seems interested

[Esmerelda]

MP1 is the fish I wanted to get into it with he is 48/0/1 over about 70 hands and he has fat stack and a tendency to call. Also he seems offended by my aggressive play (21/16/7 at this table for the last couple of hours) and has started to push back lately.

BB is basically unknown, in 17 hands he has yet to vpip (which suggests tightness but who knows)



Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $16.10
UTG+1: $4.70
MP1: $18.75
MP2: $9.50
CO: $7.90
Button: $13.30
Esmerelda: $11.10
BB: $9.70

Pre-flop: (8 players) Esmerelda is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Esmerelda calls, BB checks.

I shoulda raised to get heads up with MP1 or at least hindsight makes it so.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($0.3, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Esmerelda bets $0.2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $1.3</font>, MP1 calls, esmerelda ???
I am thinking that BB has a 4 or a draw and that MP1 has a Q or maybe a 4 but I think a Q because he can't let go of tp. Of course this in 10NL and they could have 77 and 88...

Seems like someone only calls my push with a 4 and she almost certainly has me wb.

I hate to call and what am I gonna do on the turn if I do call?

[bozzer]

I don't play FR, but I'll have stab since you post good comments on my hands...

I think raising PF from the SB with this hand is a bit close. I'd probably raise from the BB with a limper in MP and a completion from the SB.

I think you are ahead here at least 2/3 times. I think BB = Q, MP = FD are the most likely holdings. Either player could have a PP above a 4 that they're unwilling to let go of yet.

You need to decide now what the rest of your plan for the hand is. If BB is likely to bet again I would favour a call on the flop, and then a CRAI, as you might trap MP into another call behind BB.

If BB has as is likely a weak Q and doesn't want to bet again you could call the flop and then lead out on the turn. You might get a caller to the river half the time.

The third option is to just dump it in here. In this case most queens and flush draws fold. I think this is the worst option because if we are ahead we fail to extract while if we're behind to a better 4 we are dropping into their lap.

In general my mindset for the rest of this hand is: 'proceed as if ahead and attempt to extract from weaker hands, but if facing massive pressure be prepared to fold.'

[nuts]

after mp1 calls then the bb will have a tough time calling without a 4 if you raise, so personally I think a raise to about $3.50 is best. If bb pushes it's a fold, if mp1 pushes, with your read you probably have to call.

I totally agree that if you just call, not only are the flush draws happy, but the turn probably has to be a check fold, especially if a diamond lands.

I'm interested by the raise from the sb idea posted above. Do you think you will take it down often enough for this to be profitable? Especially if MP1 wants to play table sheriff? Would you lead out on a missed flop if called?

[bozzer]

Why are flush draws happy? They'll be getting slightly better than 33% to see one card if we call.

[nuts]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are flush draws happy? They'll be getting slightly better than 33% to see one card if we call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're not leading the turn, so the bb can check for a free card, depending on MP1.

[bozzer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested by the raise from the sb idea posted above. Do you think you will take it down often enough for this to be profitable? Especially if MP1 wants to play table sheriff? Would you lead out on a missed flop if called?



[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and normally IMO, but it's so much better from the BB.

For the pot odds from the SB with one limper it's

5.5/(1+1+0.5+5.5) = 68%

That's quite high, but I tend to find against some players your FE doing this is nearly 100%, while against others it's very low. It is a very situation dependant play, but I do do it quite a lot.

BTW, from the BB the odds we need are a bit kinder:

5/(1+1+1+5) = 62.5%

And we are less OOP, plus facing a weaker hand (SB completer vs random in BB).

[LearningCurve]

Esmerelda,

Not sure if you've seen it but they just opened a forum for FR play. Here's the link in case you are interested in posting your FR hands there. Bozzer's right. You are always a good question-answerer, so your FR hands may get a bigger response there.

Full Ring Forum

As for your post, I'd be shaking my head at this one. Seems like a great flop until the villains jump in there! Not sure what I'd do. I agree that calling doesn't really accomplish much here. Your hand almost assuredly won't improve, although 1 or both of villain's likely could. So, to me it's a choice of folding or rr'ing to about $4.00 (with plans to cai if you have to but REALLY hoping both villains fold). I hate to fold here with what is likely the best hand, but having only spent 30 cents so far I'd be very tempted to walk away.

Gosh, ultimately I'm thinking I'd go with the rr though. Probably wrong but the chance you are behind here seems rather unlikely.

I'll be interested to read what the results were...

[andyEB]

at this limit, I 3-bet it and hope someone shoves I call. If someone calls lead the turn big (like PSB) or just shove.

[littlefalcon]

I definitely don't like a call here. You are likely to be ahead but you don't want someone with a flush draw or big pocket pair to hit their card. I would go with a rr to around $4 and then see what happens. Most likely you would probably just take it down right there, which would be fine.

[RollTide77]

No way you should raise PF with this hand. MP1 doesn't have a 4. He raised PF in MP. BB probably has a 4 (or a good draw) and your kicker is weak. Of course they all could have nothing as well. :-) Anyways, if I'm playing you, your .20 bet after the flop is a weak draw bet to me but I still might be concerned that you got a 4 since you are in the blinds. Here, with the nuts (at that point) you should have bet more to cut off the draws. But in your position I make the call until the diamond drops and go from there.