Floor say you cant win the pot without cards

MARK R · #1 10-10-2007, 09:14 AM

MTT.

Player UTG goes all in the dealer (this is self deal) who is in the BB mucks the all in players hand. It is folded to the dealer who because of his mistake want to just fold the hand and give the player his chips back. The floor is saying he cant do that as the all in player cant win the hand without cards. The dealer mucks anyway and then there is a discussion on who gets the pot. It was eventually decided that the UTG player get his chips back and we continiue. The next day I asked the senior floor staff what should have happend and he said it would be a void hand and should be played again but the dealer would get a penalty for not calling.

Whats your opinion on this.

Mark.

Mr Rick · #2 10-10-2007, 09:27 AM

I would rule that SB & BB chips go to UTG who was all in. BB who was dealing screwed up and nobody else called. I know that UTG should protect his hand ... However, BB is not a neutral party.

auc hincloss · #3 10-10-2007, 09:29 AM

Ummm. Im not 100% sure on this but i think his all in protects him? if he had chips behind and dealer mucked utg's hand the chips stay in the pot. As i say im not sure on this but i beleive this is correct. protect your cards to stop this happening in the first place!

rminusq · #4 10-10-2007, 12:18 PM

I think according to Robert's Rules, if a hand is accidentally mucked, the player has no recourse EXCEPT that an uncalled raise is refunded.

Small Fry · #5 10-10-2007, 12:30 PM

First I'm confused as too why, if this is self deal, assuming everyone is taking a turn dealing, the dealer is in the BB. Maybe you just mean you have a player/dealer?

Anyways, My ruling would be to award the BB the pot and he would just win the size of the BB from UTG. The rest of UTG's bet would be given back to him. Or to phrase it differently, UTG's bet is reduced to a call.

ps. I can understand the BB reluctance in this matter as he's now involved in a situation (somewhat)created by him that he could take extreme advantage of. Talk about a potential angle shoot.

MARK R · #6 10-10-2007, 12:42 PM

When I mean self deal I mean that the casino does not provide a dealer. The dealer is a player that deals for the whole table. Tallkng about this angle shoot I am sure one of the player dealers has done this as he mucked a players cards which where under chips across the table (seat 4) then called the bet and won the pot. The player was not happy but the dealer said you need to protect your cards. The foor ruled that the dealer won the pot.

Mark.

budblown · #7 10-10-2007, 12:42 PM

1. Why in the hell is there multiple floor men but no dealers?
3. Is this in a casino? Where is this casino?

MARK R · #8 10-10-2007, 12:43 PM

In the UK most comps under £100 are all self deal until the final table.

Poshua · #9 10-10-2007, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think according to Robert's Rules, if a hand is accidentally mucked, the player has no recourse EXCEPT that an uncalled raise is refunded.

[/ QUOTE ]

This rule is designed for situations where the dealer is a casino employee, not a player with a financial interest in the hand. If a game is player-dealt, this rule is much less sensible.

AngusThermopyle · #10 10-10-2007, 02:59 PM

When lowball games were self-dealt in the SF Bay Area, the dealer's hand was dead if he screwed up.

Under the circumstances, the UTG player should have gotten the entire pot.