2/4 hi -- trying to isolate on 4th

[BTirish]

Am I paying too much to make this isolation bet when I know he's probably got a buried overpair? Anyone lay it down on 3rd?

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.88 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (9.38 SB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks

[bholdr]

i think you played third correctly, i like the raise, and you do have to call the re-raise there.

on fourth, i check it- your cards are really dead, and i'd wanna see fifth cheap. you really wanna catch a high diamond, eh? they're very live. nobody's gonna be afraid of your 9-2 board. i check/call

btw, i don't necessarily put him on an overpair in the hole, though... it could just as likely be something like [5A]5.

[BTirish]

This player seemed decent. I figure he will make a raise with a buried overpair or with 5-A-5-9. So, my bet here is made expecting a raise from him to isolate.

[uwda]

I think folding 3rd is your best bet. But I really like your play on 4th. I think it's well worth 1BB to try and knock out 2 limpers.

[bholdr]

I don't think you need to isolate him here, esp 'cause yer out of position. your read on the other two player's hands is actually more important than your read on the raiser, imo.

what could they have that they would call one bet with, but fold to two SBs? if they have an unimproved pair lower than a nines, you don't really need them to fold, though they should fold to even one bet anyway, and would likely call with something better or a good draw. if the raiser has an overpair, your gonna need two pair anyway... i would be concerened about the 82 trying a C/R with a four-flush, too.

you're gonna see fifth (raised pot) so see it cheap.

[Roland]

The completion on 3rd is a must. Calling the re-raise is fine by me, especially with diamonds so live.
The bet on 4th is a mistake though. You’re not gonna pair that deuce for two pairs, right? It’s the last one. So you should be thankful it’s multi-way here because basically all you have is a 3-flush.
Even if seat 4 were a maniac, it’d still be a mistake for the reason bholdr mentioned: they aren’t folding, at least not often.

So I’d check-call here and fold on 5th UI.

Oh and your location sucks. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[7csCB]

[ QUOTE ]
The completion on 3rd is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. With 3 callers left and at 2/4, I think the proper play is to call and hope it stays cheap till 4th. You may very well be ahead at 3rd but the possibility of seeing too much action and then being only slightly behind in a temtping 4th st pot is just too great.

I say this because 2/4 is usually where I play and I feel like I'm just now learning this important lesson. The likelihood of isolating with a 9 door card is too low so the raise becomes a mistake. I'd say in this situation it's the same for split 10s with 9 suited kicker.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
With 3 players left

[/ QUOTE ]

A five and two deuces scare you?

[ QUOTE ]
You may very well be ahead at 3rd but the possibility of seeing too much action and then being only slightly behind in a temtping 4th st pot is just too great.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't follow. How is the possibility of getting re-raised high?
I can handle beeing slightly behind on 4th.

[ QUOTE ]
The likelihood of isolating with a 9 door card is too low so the raise becomes a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many other situations, you'd be right. If, say, the king limped too or if one of the deuces was an ace limping might be better, depending on the players.

In this case and with these up cards, I can't see limping though.

[7csCB]

[ QUOTE ]
A five and two deuces scare you?

[/ QUOTE ]

A five _or_ a 2 don't scare me. A 5 _and_ a 2 _and_ some other do.

[ QUOTE ]
I can't follow. How is the possibility of getting re-raised high?
I can handle beeing slightly behind on 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

By too much action I mean too many callers and/or possible re-raising which just creates a big pot. I think the intent of the raise is to isolate, is it not? And I just don't think you knock out enough players often enough.

[ QUOTE ]
Many other situations, you'd be right. If, say, the king limped too or if one of the deuces was an ace limping might be better, depending on the players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the early K limping is something else. But I think this is a bit the issue. 9 as a raised overcard could easily end up with 4 players at 4th. In this case, I would rather go in cheaply and bet/raise or fold at 4th. But the fold at 4th is less of an option with the bigger pot.

[Roland]

I hear what you're saying. Just that I think your edge is on 3rd, with one 8 limper and a 5 and two dead deuces behind, is large enough to gleefully raise.
The chnance that the remaining players might fold plus the fact that your getting $$$ in with the best of it out-weighs (sp?) the disadvantages (having to play a big multi-way pot with a mid pair and slightly dead kicker).
Just my opinion.