Rivered K Hi Flush 5/10 No Limit -- What do you do?

[Praetor]

all in, I like your line

[Cooper]

Easy easy easy all in.

[terp]

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Easy easy easy all in.

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[Bigfoot]

The only reason not to shove is to see his hand because its pretty likely he's going to fold to your shove. I don't think he's ever calling you with Jx. I'm not sure if people noticed, but you're 160bb deep and one of you would have to be an idiot to get all of that on the river with that action and just a bare J.

Actually looking at this hand a bit more, unless he's a moron a call is probably correct. There are literally no none-ace flushes that are possible for him unless he has exactly J8, 68, 65 or 45 and how many of those is he raising from EP?

[CopTHIS]

I agree with the just call option given it's 160bb deep. Whether I'm tainted by losing the second nut flush about a zillion times to the nut flush recently I don't know, but you can't expect a call without a flush from him unless he thinks you are a serious livewire and if he has a flush then it's the nuts plenty. And I def don't see a nut flush draw betting the flop every time.

[mustmuck]

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And I def don't see a nut flush draw betting the flop every time.

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Really? Most of his NFD range is a combo draw here. I think he bets it almost every time if he's at all aggressive.

[CopTHIS]

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And I def don't see a nut flush draw betting the flop every time.

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Really? Most of his NFD range is a combo draw here. I think he bets it almost every time if he's at all aggressive.

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Yes really. We don't even know he's aggresive for one thing and this is 160bb deep. I agree that the nfd is almost always a combo draw though and it's mostly a bet for most people. The thing is, if he calls a push then he's either called with a very odd hand or has the nuts. Calling with an odd hand is prob less likely than him having the nuts and having checked the flop. But, like I say, I maybe tainted but the fact I can never win a flush that isn't the nuts these days [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[docnuclear]

i call i do not think you are getting called by a hand you beat

[Bigfoot]

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And I def don't see a nut flush draw betting the flop every time.

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Really? Most of his NFD range is a combo draw here. I think he bets it almost every time if he's at all aggressive.

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The problem is the villain is a total unknown and some of the time he'll probably check a NFD on the flop. At least if its Ax where x is some raggy heart that doesnt connect to the board really. I'm sure someone can figure out the numbers, but I doubt just calling is ever a significant mistake here vs. all but the worst players. Even if you are ahead of his range it's a)unlikely you crush it and b)calling provides valuable info (namely his holecards) that shoving won't. At least that way you can get something to base a read off of.

[mustmuck]

I should have said that I don't shove here, but I thought that was because I'm a pussy.

Of course he could have checked the NFD, but that doesn't mean it makes up a massive part of his range. I think we're ahead the majority or the time on the river, even after he raises, agreed? So the only question left is what does he call off the rest of his stack with that we beat. Lower flushes obviously, but my earlier logic would have them betting the flop too. So much easier with 100BB. I guess it's thin unless he feels like we're beating up on him.

I've seen a lot of (seemingly) successful players pretty much ignore the last question, always raising the river if they think they're ahead.