im in tricky spot w jj(arent they usually)

hamnegger · #1 09-16-2007, 09:59 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG+1 (t4885)
MP1 (t4455)
MP2 (t6335)
MP3 (t1505)
CO (t3050)
Button (t475)
Hero (t6345)
BB (t3080)
UTG (t11930)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to t200, 2 folds, CO calls t200, Button raises to t475, Hero ?

erc007 · #2 09-16-2007, 10:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG+1 (t4885)
MP1 (t4455)
MP2 (t6335)
MP3 (t1505)
CO (t3050)
Button (t475)
Hero (t6345)
BB (t3080)
UTG (t11930)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to t200, 2 folds, CO calls t200, Button raises to t475, Hero ?

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I think i make this 800. JJ is ahead of MP1+button's range and you're OOP. If you make it 800, MP1 might think you're isolating and 4-bet a lot of hands that you beat. I think that i make it 800 and call if MP1 gets frisky and shoves.

hERESY · #3 09-16-2007, 11:32 PM

1200 or fold

erc007 · #4 09-16-2007, 11:40 PM

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1200 or fold

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...why???

flettl2 · #5 09-17-2007, 12:03 AM

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If you make it 800, MP1 might think you're isolating and 4-bet a lot of hands that you beat. I think that i make it 800 and call if MP1 gets frisky and shoves.

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MP1 and Hero both have M's of 60+. This deep stacked I'm never calling all in preflop with only JJ. I think calling is fine, nobody's going to bluff into an empty sidepot, so you'll know if you're ahead or behind quickly by making a probe bet on the flop if all lower than J's.

erc007 · #6 09-17-2007, 12:20 AM

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If you make it 800, MP1 might think you're isolating and 4-bet a lot of hands that you beat. I think that i make it 800 and call if MP1 gets frisky and shoves.

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MP1 and Hero both have M's of 60+. This deep stacked I'm never calling all in preflop with only JJ. I think calling is fine, nobody's going to bluff into an empty sidepot, so you'll know if you're ahead or behind quickly by making a probe bet on the flop if all lower than J's.

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There's a 52% probability that at least one overcard will flop. U then check/fold when MP1 c-bets into a "dry sidepot?" I'm not advocating trying to get it AI here preflop, but JJ is way ahead of an MP1 opening range and u are OOP. MP1 should c-bet a lot of flops here if u just call. The main pot will have 1400 in it if u call and MP1 calls pre. Do u really think it going to get checked down to the river? My point about RR'ing to 800 was that it will underrep our hand and it might induce an aggro player to shove hands like 99;TT if he thinks he has FE.

Do u just flatcall here from SB if button folds?

flettl2 · #7 09-17-2007, 12:38 AM

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U then check/fold when MP1 c-bets into a "dry sidepot?"

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In a nut shell...ya! Remember the CO called aswell, so MP1 is not cbetting the flop with 2 live opponents and one allin, he'd be betting for value.

What if Button is removed from equation (With CO still calling original raise)? Make a pot sized reraise to see where you're at, you're OOP as you said so taking it down preflop is fine by me. If he rereraises I'm folding.

erc007 · #8 09-17-2007, 01:01 AM

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If you make it 800, MP1 might think you're isolating and 4-bet a lot of hands that you beat. I think that i make it 800 and call if MP1 gets frisky and shoves.

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MP1 and Hero both have M's of 60+. This deep stacked I'm never calling all in preflop with only JJ. I think calling is fine, nobody's going to bluff into an empty sidepot, so you'll know if you're ahead or behind quickly by making a probe bet on the flop if all lower than J's.

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U call 450...BB folds...MP1 calls 275...CO calls 275. Pot=1950. Flop 752r...u lead for 1000, MP1 raises 4000 AI, CO folds...you fold now (getting over 2 to 1) knowing that he has QQ-AA, and not 88-TT?

flettl2 · #9 09-17-2007, 09:02 AM

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U call 450...BB folds...MP1 calls 275...CO calls 275. Pot=1950. Flop 752r...u lead for 1000, MP1 raises 4000 AI, CO folds...you fold now (getting over 2 to 1) knowing that he has QQ-AA, and not 88-TT?

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If he had AA-QQ he would reraise preflop, here he probably does have 88-TT so I would call.

Dave D · #10 09-17-2007, 10:11 AM

I like a push here. A raise is gonna need to be 1500 or more, and that's just about 25% of your stack which is way too much to put in with JJ at this stage. Might as well push. However the key here is that you're gonna be out of position on the hand. Just push and hope for the best.

I guess you could call here, which I don't mind that much either. You just have to be careful from then on and fold bad flops. Also if you call and then OR raises, make sure you get it in there.