Is this Weak Tight Play

scott2130 · #1 11-10-2007, 06:54 PM

PokerStars Game #13160965357: Hold'em Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/11/10 - 17:44:50 (ET)
Table 'Kalm II' 10-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: joeythecouch ($22.50 in chips)
Seat 2: S.N. Bigfoot ($23.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero ($16.40 in chips)
Seat 5: danwfish ($19.60 in chips)
Seat 6: ITGFAB ($31.15 in chips)
Seat 7: bubbaloval ($68.55 in chips)
Seat 9: maev1 ($29.05 in chips)
Seat 10: Losicki ($11 in chips)
Shengrat will be allowed to play after the button
maev1: posts small blind $0.25
Losicki: posts big blind $0.50
Penhasco: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jh Jd]
joeythecouch: folds
S.N. Bigfoot: folds
Hero: raises $0.50 to $1
danwfish: calls $1
ITGFAB: folds
bubbaloval: folds
maev1: calls $0.75
Losicki: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [4d 4h 3s]
maev1: checks
Losicki: checks
Hero: bets $0.50
danwfish: raises $0.50 to $1
maev1: raises $0.50 to $1.50
Losicki: folds
Hero: calls $1
danwfish: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [4d 4h 3s] [6d]
maev1: bets $1
Hero: calls $1
danwfish: folds
*** RIVER *** [4d 4h 3s 6d] [9c]
maev1: bets $1
Hero ?????

Do I call here even if I think I am beat?

tyler_cracker · #2 11-10-2007, 07:11 PM

c'mon dude, 379 posts? convert your hand.

milesdyson · #3 11-10-2007, 07:14 PM

i fold the flop to a lot of players.

you have to make your decision there on the flop because you have a 2-outer if behind and the bets are only getting bigger. you never coldcall 2 on the flop, call one on the turn, and fold on a blank river with this type of hand.

also duh convert wtf

scott2130 · #4 11-10-2007, 07:34 PM

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

River: (10.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Sorry, here it is converted. Right or wrong, do I call the river bet since I called the flop and turn?

BadBigBabar · #5 11-10-2007, 07:35 PM

yes

Xylocain · #6 11-10-2007, 07:39 PM

:g:
I think I can find a fold the flop without reads. Since you didnt call turn an river. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

bozlax · #7 11-10-2007, 09:16 PM

Gross. Converting it didn't make it look any better.

You have 2 outs if you're behind. You cool-called on the flop getting around 7:1, so you thought you had the best hand. Nothing fell on the turn or river that should have disabused you of that idea. I folding when an ace falls on the river, or the board gets scarier and somebody new wakes up, but the way this was played is ugly.

However, it's not w/t...it's donktastic.

tehox · #8 11-10-2007, 09:31 PM

Obv call the river. Decision is on the flop either he has a 4, is overplaying a lower pocket pair, or is a maniac, turn and river action don't really change anything.

Harv72b · #9 11-11-2007, 12:08 AM

Getting 10:1 or better on the river in a heads up pot, you should never be folding an overpair to a single bet (a raise is different).

Whenever you're involved in a hand, you should always be thinking about what your opponent(s) may have. Their range of possible hands...every bet, raise, or call they make should help you to narrow that range, as will developing a read on each specific opponent over time. You should also be looking at the size of the pot and, if you believe that you might be behind, how many outs you have to improve to a winner--basic pot odds stuff which I'm sure you know.

Here's where it gets fun: when you're looking at a river decision in a heads up pot, take the range of hands your opponent could have based on his play thus far, and look at how much of that range you beat. For example, in this hand you estimate he's got:

Trip fours or a full house 40% of the time.
A smaller overpair which didn't boat up 20%.
A three 5%.
A slowplayed overpair to your jacks 5%.
A flopped OESD 20%; half of those (10% total) made a straight with the 6, the other made a worse two pair with it.
Is just an idiot 10% (standard estimate at these stakes)

Against that range on the river, you lose 55% of the time. But, you're getting pot odds to call of better than 10:1, so you only need to win the pot 10% of the time for calling to be correct (that's not even factoring in the value of getting to see his hole cards when you call vs. not seeing them when you fold; improving your read). It's an automatic call.

Do the same thing on the flop & turn, only now look at the pot odds you're being offered to call down in the hand--in a heads up 6BB pot on the turn, for example, you need to put in 2 BBs to win 7 BBs at showdown, so you're getting about 3.5:1. If you figure that you beat around 35% of his range, you call down (that's grossly oversimplified, but you get the idea).

It's a ton of thinking to do in real time, but as you get used to doing it & see the same situations over and over again, it will become second nature. Most times you won't even realize you're doing it until afterwards.

neurotiq · #10 11-11-2007, 05:15 AM

I think I can find a fold on the flop...