gettin dirty...

[jstill]

hero opens AKo utg, villain 3bets otb, hero calls

flop T53
i ck, villain cks

turn 8
hero ck raises.... who likes it? it felt pretty sweet at the time value-towning AK hi.

i was gonna post this in the LC thread but wanted a couple strat responses to see whether this was reasonable

[danzasmack]

with no read i hate it

it depends what that flop check means to you as of late and to me, lately it means TT. If you disagree then I like it.

[jstill]

i was gonna ask how much the validity of this line depends on metagame, feel ect

[yourface]

cap preflop

after that it's dependent on what you read his check behind as

[jstill]

ive asked about capping vs calling preflop here before, but i think its probably a topic worth discussing again

pros cons? who thinks what?

[sethypooh21]

Capping OOP has two major pros as far as I'm concerned

1) Value - AK is ahead of the 3-ball range
2) Initiative - IMO it's much easier to pick up these 'orphan pots' with it than with out it. As played, you have a hard time repping anything as the turn C/R looks really fishy, as after the flop checks through, are you really likely to swing for a C/R the second time? If you played an actual made hand this way, you'd be guilty of pretty bad FPS, IMO, which makes a bluff less believable.

[jstill]

well im not bluffing on the turn, its a value bet. i trust his cks, he has no reason ever to ck any PP here (except maybe TT or KK AA arguably) but im peeling this flop with tons of hands, i believe him and put him squarely on an unmade hand which gives me the nuts. The fact my line looks like BS is actually better for this play since worse hands will call. forget this play for a second tho.

back to preflop, i think about this spot a lot and i call here alot with AK oop esp when his 3betting range should be a bit tighter since im utg. I think when my hands good (or even when its not) im usually peeling enough ( becuz i have the equity to against his range) where hes not picking up the orphan pots without the goods and most people arent firing many bullets on most boards (not 3 anyways), since im often ck calling some made hands in this spot as well so theres appropriate balance where i dont think i can be exploited just through aggression making me fold the best hand or light value betting if i stay passive.

what better hands do i fold out on what boards if i take initiative is the main question? I think it plays better without initiative truthfully i get to make him make more mistakes perhaps thta way?

the only case it really comes up i think is when a monoflop comes that neither of us have a draw or pair to, then initiative is better, but that wont come up hardly ever.

this is all debatable im sure. whats the standard preflop and who can prove what is better when?

[sharpie]

I think smoothcalling PF against most is best.

Not really sure what to do on the turn, but check/raising seems the worst option unless you have a read.

[sebastien]

why is it best?? you re ahead At+ and against qq jj tt pp etc you have many outs.
i think more than 50% you are ahead so cap for value and when you re behind you have 8out so it s not really dramaticaly.

And for the opponement with hands like 88,99,TT,JJ it would be difficult to play against a cap.

[sharpie]

It's not all about immediate value, think about how the hand plays when you cap vs smoothcall. You make it easier for 88-JJ to play when you cap. If an ace or king flops they're likely to fold, they're almost never folding a better hand if an ace or king doesn't flop. I'd also rather let a dominated hand keep the initiative.