2-4 bottom set

[chucky]

You raise the flop to find out if your opponents have top or middle set and to charge the draws. Top and middle set will push on this flop which is medium drawy. In this scenario you spend 100 dollars of your 400+ stack. By calling instead you dont have any better knowledge of ttp/set/drawing hands held by villians. The 3 of diamonds doesnt necessarily help their hands, but Villian 2 has now pushed. Villian 2's push includes a range of straight draw/ flush draw combos and sets. Villian 2 smooth calls flop with middle set on a drawy board in order to see a safe card before committing to the pot is a reasonable story. As I said before if you had raised the flop you would know if your opponents had higher sets. Here's my question for you:
Are you calling the push by Villian 2 or do you push allin? If you call can you fold when villian 1 pushes behind you.

[gameoverjc]

most of the time i believe ur against top 2 and combo draw. i believe that villain 2 would've shoved middle/top set on flop... but who knows.

barring any reads, i'd call and cross my fingers.

[blainestar]

[ QUOTE ]
You raise the flop to find out if your opponents have top or middle set and to charge the draws. Top and middle set will push on this flop which is medium drawy. In this scenario you spend 100 dollars of your 400+ stack. By calling instead you dont have any better knowledge of ttp/set/drawing hands held by villians. The 3 of diamonds doesnt necessarily help their hands, but Villian 2 has now pushed. Villian 2's push includes a range of straight draw/ flush draw combos and sets. Villian 2 smooth calls flop with middle set on a drawy board in order to see a safe card before committing to the pot is a reasonable story. As I said before if you had raised the flop you would know if your opponents had higher sets. Here's my question for you:
Are you calling the push by Villian 2 or do you push allin? If you call can you fold when villian 1 pushes behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok this makes ALOT more sense to me the way you explained it here. As for your question..... If I cold call the 212 from V2 I think I HAVE to call a push from V1 as there will be ~560 in the pot and only a little over 100 more for me to call. I'm still not sure if it is better to push to try and shut out V1 or just call in this situation??

So far from most responses it seems as if people are more concerned with V2 hand, but when I was in the hand I thought V1 potting it twice, especially on the blank turn after getting 2 callers, showed alot of strength. I wasn't really worried about V2 so much. I guess my final question would be..... Would it be normal for V1 in this hand to pot it twice with just top 2 or a draw?? I fig he had to have a set, JJ or QQ. He was in the BB and potted it into a 5 way limped pot, got 2 callers, and didn't slow down on the turn.

[chucky]

If villian one is potting with a draw, then it probably is top pair or 2-pair plus fd or big straight draw.

[iggymcfly]

If I have top two and get two callers, no way in hell do I slow down on the completely blank turn. That would be almost as bad as C/Cing bottom set on the flop. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[blainestar]

LOL iggy

Thanks for all your the input guys. I'll prob be back soon with another butchered hand and a hard to read HH from scratch asking more questions. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[chucky]

Villain 2 could not shove on the flop with middle set. The maximum raise villain 2 can make on the flop is a raise to 80. This would put villain 2 in an difficult situation if any of the many scare cards hit on turn and villain 1 bets.

[iggymcfly]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL iggy

Thanks for all your the input guys. I'll prob be back soon with another butchered hand and a hard to read HH from scratch asking more questions. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

At least you're learning. As long as you actually listen to the advice people give and incorporate it into your game, you can improve quickly.