2/4 B&M - Bet or checkraise monster flop that I capped preflop? - Page 2

threads13 · #11 02-28-2007, 05:38 PM

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I would never cap preflop w/ JJ, rarely do w/ AA.

The question is, can I wait til the turn to c/r?

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Seriously? You don't cap AA?

ncskiier · #12 02-28-2007, 05:47 PM

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I would never cap preflop w/ JJ, rarely do w/ AA.

The question is, can I wait til the turn to c/r?

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Seriously? You don't cap AA?

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Rarely, might be a stretch. I would say that when given the option I cap around 50% of the time.

I don't like to give away the strength of my hand. Of course it depends on the opponent, my position, and the size of the field, whether I want to, or can, narrow it further.

But I suck.

gobbledygeek · #13 02-28-2007, 06:02 PM

Help a noob out, I'm still confused as to why some would not cap this preflop. With 5 players I'm putting in only 20% of the money into the pot right now; I have a fairly big equity advantage in this hand against a button's normal 3betting range and 3 other typical 2/4 gambloors, no?

ncskiier · #14 02-28-2007, 06:08 PM

Against 5 opponents I doubt if you have an equity edge with JJ. (I'm sure someone will chime in w/ figures.) However, I would always cap KK, AA 5-way.

Calculations show your equity to be around 19% against 4 limpers and one 3 bettor.

shane88888 · #15 02-28-2007, 06:40 PM

Capping here is good. You only really have to worry about one opponent having you beat (the button). If this was online, maybe you call (but you'd never get the three callers online, so there's not much to argue here). Live, it's a cap. Set value alone is almost enough to justify a cap.

In a live game, the button is very likely to three-bet with a good multiway hand (JTs especially), and not necessarily a big pair. If he has a big pair, well, that sucks - but you partially negate that deficit by having three players coming along for the ride here. Your equity edge here is far too big not to push, especially when only one player has shown any strength.

In a big pot like this, I want to be aggressive and essentially announce to the table that I have a big pair. If the flop is favorable (underdcards and no J), I want any overcards (ATs, QTs, etc) to fold the flop (or the turn). Though perhaps unlikely, this is easier to do if you cap it.

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Here the situation is different. We have just a fantastic flop for our hand.

As some people suggested, playing to protect your hand here is ridiculous. You have top set on a rainbow board with no real straight draws.

If the flop is two-sooted, or if that board is J T 2, then it's time to protect. Here there is little to worry about. Playing as such in this situation is playing too scared.

Since you hit your set and there are no obvious draws, it's tough to make a wrong decision here. The problem is though, there are no obvious draws and two checks already - making a check-through on the flop more likely.

If there is any chance (5%) you think this will get checked through, I'd bet. Since you capped preflop, a continuation bet is expected and reveals nothing about your hand. Actually, your opponents would expect you to anything but bet with JJJ here.

How about this line? Bet/call flop.

Then c/r turn (or bet/3bet depending on the action).

shane88888 · #16 02-28-2007, 06:42 PM

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Against 5 opponents I doubt if you have an equity edge with JJ. (I'm sure someone will chime in w/ figures.) However, I would always cap KK, AA 5-way.

Calculations show your equity to be around 19% against 4 limpers and one 3 bettor.

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How do you calculate this with no idea what the button's three-betting range is?

ncskiier · #17 02-28-2007, 06:47 PM

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Against 5 opponents I doubt if you have an equity edge with JJ. (I'm sure someone will chime in w/ figures.) However, I would always cap KK, AA 5-way.

Calculations show your equity to be around 19% against 4 limpers and one 3 bettor.

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How do you calculate this with no idea what the button's three-betting range is?

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I have no idea what the limpers limping range is either. In these cases, you just have to go with God.

shane88888 · #18 02-28-2007, 06:47 PM

Here's a massive thread on whether JJ is an autoraise from the SB regardless of number of limpers.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

Personally, I was at first against auto-raising, but your edge is so big you have to push it.

shane88888 · #19 02-28-2007, 06:48 PM

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Against 5 opponents I doubt if you have an equity edge with JJ. (I'm sure someone will chime in w/ figures.) However, I would always cap KK, AA 5-way.

Calculations show your equity to be around 19% against 4 limpers and one 3 bettor.

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How do you calculate this with no idea what the button's three-betting range is?

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I have no idea what the limpers limping range is either. In these cases, you just have to go with God.

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Then where does this 19% come from?

ncskiier · #20 02-28-2007, 06:52 PM

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Then where does this 19% come from?

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Do you think my calculation is flawed? Does it sound low?

I used normal loose-passive limping requirements, and a 3-betting range somewhat looser than mine. If anything the limpers probably had BETTER hands than I gave them credit for.