$50 NL: Hand Reading Exercise-You Make The Call - Page 2

PoppaTMan · #11 09-08-2006, 01:45 AM

Flop check here is not the end of the world. We only have enough to really bet one street with these stacks. Also, MP2 could very well have hit a big hand on this flop. However, after MP1 bets weak on the turn and MP2 gets out of the way, I'm looking to push (essentially a PSR). MP1 appears to be mildly retarded, as he limp-called 14 bb. I expect him to bet here with any K or Q. If he has 33, 66, or KQ here, that's tough luck, but he's probably calling off his stack with any K or Q as well.

74o_Clownsuit · #12 09-08-2006, 03:10 AM

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pot the flop please

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CharlieDontSurf · #13 09-08-2006, 05:00 AM

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- What range do you put this guy on at the River and is a call profitable against that range?

- Do you like the flop check behind and turn call (instead of raise)?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($3.90)
BB ($20)
UTG ($98.55)
UTG+1 ($47)
MP1 ($70.25)
MP2 ($36.50)
MP3 ($38.75)
Hero ($51.50)
Button ($46.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 raises to $1.5, MP3 calls $1.50, Hero raises to $7, 3 folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $6.50, MP2 calls $5.50, MP3 folds.

Flop: ($23.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($23.75) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets $5, MP2 folds, Hero calls $5.

River: ($33.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets $15, Hero ??

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any reads or stats on these players?

I'm a NL newb but I dont see MP1 raising to 1.50 with KK or QQ when two limpers were in front of him. Don't see MP2 simply calling $1.50 with either of those hands.

kslghost · #14 09-08-2006, 06:38 AM

My guess is 88-QQ, and I'd call because of the way we played it. Opponent bluffs a lot here.

stinkpaw · #15 09-08-2006, 06:44 AM

Seems like the two points made during your responses are:

1) Pot the flop.
2) The way the hand was played, it is very hard to put villian on a hand, or even a range.

I agree with #2, but my problem with potting the flop is we are pot committed. We aren't folding to a raise, and are forced to either bet or c/c most any turn card.

Do we really want to put in are entire stack with an overpair? Does it really make us feel better that if we get raised on the flop we at least *know* we are beat as we are pushing all our chips into the middle?

If you tell me that you would fold to a flop push getting 3.4:1 (which I doubt most people would do), you could have gotten to showdown for the same price.

What is wrong with this logic?

OXIO · #16 09-08-2006, 07:00 AM

the way you played it, its an auto call.

MikeSmith · #17 09-08-2006, 07:45 AM

3 handed on a flop like that AA is not good enough to slowplay, if you are thinking someone flopped top two you are weak tight.

ChipStorm · #18 09-08-2006, 08:04 AM

stinkpaw, it's true that if you bet you're going to wind up pot-committed. But if you don't, you're committing the fundamental mistake of letting opponents who are behind draw for free.

Against one opponent, you're right, you wouldn't be so worried as the flop is relatively dry. But it's not completely dry, and in this hand you have twice the opposition.

So raised pot, relatively large on the flop, you have rockets and multiple opponents who will very likely benefit from seeing more: it's time to put the money in.

As played, I probably call the river on odds, but villain likely knows he has to have top pair beaten, which means he probably has you. But you put yourself to a tough river decision by not betting earlier.

4_2_it · #19 09-08-2006, 08:51 AM

Can somebody explain how all the money isn't in the middle before the river? (HINT: look at hand from villain's perspective.)

CharlieDontSurf · #20 09-08-2006, 02:54 PM

Ok they never put this much thought into a hand like this at 50NL but I'm going to try to tell why villian played his hand this way

Preflop....MP2 looks at hand after two limpers...hmm I have 10/J, 9/J, A/J, A/10, Q/J, Axs etc...maybe two hearts. Couple a limpers...I'll raise this up a $1 eventhough I know half the table will call my raise.

MP2 looks at hand...its ok...sure I'll call that raise...its just a $1 more than a .50c limp. Family pot time.

Hero raises it to $7

MP2...why $7..thats a lot for Aces...wouldnt he just raise it to $4 or $5? Its not like I raised to $3...it was just a buck. Hmmm he's being sneaky...bet he has JJ or worse and he's worried about someone calling with overcards....ok I'll call.

MP3 hmmm....reraise and a call...I'm clearly beat..but I'll call with my 77 and hope for a set.

Flop comes...check check check....MP2 maybe at best has AQ or open ended draw but he's kind worried and he's weak tight...what if Hero had QQ? MP3 has nothing and those overs scare him big time.

Turn
MP2-who may have gotten some extra outs if he has 2 hearts...why in the world would he check that flop with Aces?...I bet he has JJ or 1010? but maybe he's slowplaying a set...ok I'll bet $5...I can afford to gamble $5 to win such a huuuge pot and if he raises then I know I'm screwed and I can fold...but I may win the pot with a cheap massive underbet.

MP3...yeah...I knew i was dead..i fold...PP is so rigged...can I ever flop a set?

Hero calls.

River
Ohhh heart...wonder if he thinks I might have a flush now...why the hell did he just call? He cant't have aces or a set...he's gott JJ or worse.

Hmm...I bet if I bet $15 he'll get scared and fold...wow I'm so good at poker.
No way he calls me with JJ or worse...there are a Q/K on the board.

Ok I'll bet $15. heart begins to pound as he waits for Hero to make decision.

On a sidenote....was MP2 Betgo?