Am I Being Too Hard On People With My Willpower Experiment

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. But then to rebut them I propose an experiment. I offer them money to entice them to do what they never do after merely saying they want to and will. And lo and behold they now do it! This has actually happened for moderate money. When it does, I claim that their arguments about themselves have been shown to be basically hogwash. Am I being too tough on them?

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone is burdening you with their goals and excuses, then you are not being too tough on them. Except maybe you may be taking this a little personal for some reason ("I tend to be very unforgiving").

If they haven't brought the subject up and you observed these things of your own accord, then it's none of your business. If you have strong opinions anyway, you need to ask yourself why?

FWIW, I decided 4 1/2 years ago that I was going to run a marathon. For me, I might as well have decided I was going to fly to the moon, as I don't think I had run more than 100 yards in my life (and collapsed exhausted when I did), and I spent much of my life around 300 lbs. I didn't tell anyone my plans, partially because I didn't want to go public and fail, and partially to see the suprised looks if I succeeded. Five months of training later, I did it.

Also, there are other issues involved than some realize. Don't be surprised if the guy who loses 100 pounds to win $10,000 from you has gained it all back 5 years later. I doubt I could run 1/2 mile today. Hmmm, maybe I'll go out and see what I can do, lol.

[martial]

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It seems that it's a matter of what it takes to motivate someone to change. Apparently a sufficient monetary incentive will often provide enough motivation.


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Most often people are too dumb to realize the value of the knowledge or the great body.
So they fall into short term pleasures,harming their body and their future.(It's too hard to study or work out)
But that's what makes the difference between people,and going for short term pleasures will get them only mizerable existance.
The only choice they leave for themselfs is to marry for the same [censored] like them,make kids and live mizerable and in delusions all their lives.
Maybe that is what they deserve but that is also the way some kids are damaged for life from their parrents.

[RoundTower]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree. But then to rebut them I propose an experiment. I offer them money to entice them to do what they never do after merely saying they want to and will. And lo and behold they now do it! This has actually happened for moderate money.

[/ QUOTE ]
I missed if you gave examples of this, but it seems like many of your associates will be poker players and other competitive gamblers. People who are often driven by competition, and who see this as another game they want to win.

Also I think this approach is more likely to work with men than women, as men seem to be naturally more competitively driven.

[LandonM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that it's a matter of what it takes to motivate someone to change. Apparently a sufficient monetary incentive will often provide enough motivation.


[/ QUOTE ]
Most often people are too dumb to realize the value of the knowledge or the great body.
So they fall into short term pleasures,harming their body and their future.(It's too hard to study or work out)
But that's what makes the difference between people,and going for short term pleasures will get them only mizerable existance.
The only choice they leave for themselfs is to marry for the same [censored] like them,make kids and live mizerable and in delusions all their lives.
Maybe that is what they deserve but that is also the way some kids are damaged for life from their parrents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either English isn't your first language, or you really, really should refrain from throwing stones of ANY KIND as it pertains to issues of human ability and dedication to ones own betterment.

That aside...

There are some very astute observations in this thread.
As someone who has struggled with weight my whole life (severely) I can attest to the fact that much of what has been said here is spot on. Back in 97, I set a land speed record for losing upwards of 130 pounds in about 7 months.
By 2005 (and after a severe back injury limiting mobility) every ounce of it is back on, plus another 50 to boot. My present body type is basically Doyle Brunson, pre-Gastric Bypass, although I’m working to get it back down to a more healthy range.

The thing is, back injury aside, I entirely agree with those who say this is purely an issue of willpower. The concept of human frailty as a rationalization for failures in adults is nothing more than an excuse; at times partially valid, but an ‘excuse’ none the less. Sort of how "environment" and "socioeconomics" are used to rationalize other certain behaviors amongst certain subsets of people, the frailty of any given adult shouldn't be cited as a reason for their own failures. Rather, ‘frailty’ should be viewed as a character defect and purged accordingly, instead as being codified as a ready-made excuse, there to trot out whenever anyone [censored] up. The reason I specify adults is that there is indeed an inherent degree of frailty in children and young adults. One would hope that by the time they grow up, it will be gone.

One thing the 1960's did to us as a nation was to eliminate the idea that individual character building and personal culpability. In our present age, we dismiss failings as "human frailty" and usually pass off the idea of culpability on some broad, marginally valid social theorem.

[calc]

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I tend to be very unforgiving toward people who don't stick to their resolutions. Especially if it is chronic. At the very least I expect tham to take note of their propensity to continue eating, drinking, not exercising, not studying, or whatever, after they tell everybody how they will change. Which means at the very least they should stop making these statements so as not to continue disappointing people around them. Tell us AFTER you accomplish something.

The reply I get is that I should understand human frailty better. Some people have little willpower and it is cruel for me to expect them to confront that fact. If they want to continually talk about their plans for the future, that I know won't happen, I should just let them.

They also go on to say that the ability to show willpower is an individual thing. I can't judge unless I walk a mile in their shoes. Perhaps they have just as much willpower as I do. They don't push themselves like I do (I actually do in some regards, notwithstanding my "laziness" admission elsewhere.) because the discomfort or pain is greater to them than to me. Whether it be doing twenty pushups, drinking pomegranite juice, or reading a science book.

I agree. But then to rebut them I propose an experiment. I offer them money to entice them to do what they never do after merely saying they want to and will. And lo and behold they now do it! This has actually happened for moderate money. When it does, I claim that their arguments about themselves have been shown to be basically hogwash. Am I being too tough on them?

[/ QUOTE ]

what is their argument? That to follow through on their objectives is harder for them than it is for you? Well this is obviously a truism. No one wants to be a failure. Therefore anyone who fails must have something blocking their success, or have some sort of mental deficiency which makes it harder for them to achieve success.

The fact that the additional motivation of money you introduce results in success for someone who has previously failed doesn't really prove anything except that people's motivation in any area generally increases when there is money at stake, and of course increased motivation will tend to result in increased levels of success.

Some people are capable of achieving their goals with little external motivation. Others need a shove. We don't choose which of these categories we fall into.

Do these people deserve your sympathy? perhaps not. but at the same time they don't deserve your judgement.