Adjusting to Perennial Cold-Callers

[AlanBostick]

The $15-$30 game at the Oaks Club in Emeryville, California, used to be the tightest game in the Bay Area. Since the poker boom took off, though, it's gotten way, way looser. The game is a mix of total duffers, kids who watch too much TV poker, gamblers (including some smart ones who can play almost any two cards and then play well after the flop), and regular winners.

A characteristic feature of the game these days is that many players cold-call preflop raises with just about any hand that they would limp in with. Players will reraise with their great hands, but much more often they will just trail in after the raiser with mediocre hands -- often with hands with which I personally would hesitate to see a flop for a single bet.

Even the good players in this game, the props, the local pros, the otherwise-tight, solid winners who have been taking money home from the game for years, often cold-call preflop raises.

I rarely cold-call myself. Very infrequently I'll be in late position with a hand like suited KQ or AT with a raise and two callers in front of me. Otherwise, I fold hands I don't feel comfortable three-betting.

In this game, opening with a preflop raise will occasionally win the blinds but much more often get one to three cold-callers, plus the players in the blinds. It is tough to isolate a single limper. Isolating a raiser is rather more likely but by no means guaranteed.

How should I be playing to better exploit this general tendency to cold-call preflop raises? Should I open up my calling standards? What sorts of hands should I be open-raising with? what sorts should I be raising after limpers? Should I be three-betting with more hands or less?

I'm sure I haven't given enough information to get a single "correct" answer. Nevertheless, discussion of pros and cons, what I should be thinking about to get my own answers, etc., would be very helpful to me.

[brettbrettr]

This sounds like a fairly standard play-Ed-Miller-poker type game.

[Man of Means]

Most of the coldcallers are playing badly, especially the truly stonecold crazy callers who are directly to the left of the raiser with smallish pocket pairs, suited rubbish, etc.


but the late position coldcallers may not be as bad as you think if they have "implied odds" type of hands and can sometimes steal if the table is weak.

Try to find out their personal reasons for coldcalling ("I can't fold JT" "I have position" "I'm going to trap them" etc.) i.e. which aspect of poker are they overvaluing?

[amulet]

you wrote that solid winners are cold calling 2 bets. this is very unlikely. if they are often calling raises they are likely loosing players.

you beat the game by playing good poker. you raise with your big hands, 3 bet if you can limit the field, and when in late position if you have a hand that plays well multiway, and the pot is multiway, you can then call. however resist the urge to call raises cold, it is almost never correct unless the pot is multiway. if you can't 3 bet usually fold.

post flop, in games like this people will chase due to pot size. therefore, you need to find ways to limit the field by making it 2 bets to your opponents whenever you can. ssh is terrific for these types of games. read it, and then reread it. good luck.

[AlanBostick]

[ QUOTE ]
you wrote that solid winners are cold calling 2 bets. this is very unlikely. if they are often calling raises they are likely loosing players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been playing with many of these guys for years and, while I haven't been keeping detailed records of what they buy in for and what they cash out with, my impression is that they are doing quite well.

[AlanBostick]

I've read SSH, and there are aspects of Miller's recommendations that I don't like. For example, he recommends limping in with small pocket pairs and small suited aces in early and middle position. All too often when I do this I face a raise after me, and wind up paying too much to see a flop out of position with a hand that needs the flop to hit it hard in order to continue. Five-way action just isn't good enough to justify paying two bets to see a flop with a small pair.

(Yes, I know this doesn't directly address the cold-calling issue.)

[Man of Means]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing with many of these guys for years and, while I haven't been keeping detailed records of what they buy in for and what they cash out with, my impression is that they are doing quite well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that is the case, it is hand-reading and aggressive postflop play that keeps them above water. The preflop play is -EV but sets the stage for:

good players think these guys suck and hence give back some of that EV by playing too fast or whiffing a c/r at the wrong time.

weak players with marginal hands fold like origami to a turn raise. e.g. AK or maybe 77 on an 8826 board. Whoops you got floated again.

[AlanBostick]

[ QUOTE ]
but the late position coldcallers may not be as bad as you think if they have "implied odds" type of hands and can sometimes steal if the table is weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the reasons I'm asking about this is that I am seriously wondering about the extent that they are doing something that I ought to be doing also. Or if my three-betting standards are too tight, for that matter.


[ QUOTE ]
Try to find out their personal reasons for coldcalling ("I can't fold JT" "I have position" "I'm going to trap them" etc.) i.e. which aspect of poker are they overvaluing?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very good advice.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
Five-way action just isn't good enough to justify paying two bets to see a flop with a small pair.


[/ QUOTE ]
Alan,
Although I'm not fond of open-limping or playing small pairs up front, I think a table where there's five-way action for two bets is exactly the right situation to play those baby pairs and suited aces. You've just got to be able to get away from the hand if you don't flop a set or four to a flush.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
Five-way action just isn't good enough to justify paying two bets to see a flop with a small pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
Alan,
Although I'm not fond of open-limping or playing small pairs up front, I think a table where there's five-way action for two bets is exactly the right situation to play those baby pairs. You've just got to be able to get away from the hand if you don't flop a set.