Vaccination tyranny continued.

[qwnu]

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try not to degenerate into insults...

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you are a complete fool if you think...

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nh

[Money2Burn]

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they can/will lie to you with impunity, and so it is vitally important to actively *fight* them, and adopt the proper mindset, because they are actively fighting you, and their number one weapon is fraud.


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BLASPHEMY!

[natedogg]

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1. Government mandates that my child attend the local public school.
2. School mandates that my child get a chicken pox vaccine, or be expelled.
3. I'm too poor to move out of state or to pay private school tuition.
4. School expels my child.
5. Government jails me on truancy charges.


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Or... they could just vaccinate their child...

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You didn't read the part where I don't *want* to give my child a chicken-pox vaccine. Now I'm in a catch 22. I'll go to jail if he gets expelled and he'll get expelled if I don't vaccinate him and I'm too poor to buy private education.

natedogg

[bobman0330]

Why do you think people should have the freedom to spread contagious diseases? Unvaccinated people are a public health hazard.

[TomCollins]

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Why do you think people should have the freedom to spread contagious diseases? Unvaccinated people are a public health hazard.

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You realize we are talking about chicken pox, right? Back when I was a kid, we were vaccinated from this disease by being forced to play with our cousins who already had it.

[Copernicus]

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Ok kids, try not to degenerate into insults so that my thread doesn't get locked. Sheesh.

Many of you tried to point out that vaccinations were *important* dammit! And how can I be opposed to vaccinations?

Of course I'm not opposed to vaccinations. I don't vaccinate for stupid crap like the flue <font color="red">perhaps you never heard of the flu epidemic that killed over 675,000 Amerians. Stupid crap indeed. </font> and chicken pox but I vaccinated my kids for everything serious

Now, many of you missed the point of my critique of the totally unfit Judge Nichols.

First and foremost, your government should not have the power to force any medical treatments upon you. <font color="red"> of course they should, when avoidance of that treatment endangers the public health </font> The danger inherent in that power is borderline self-evident. (hint: have any accepted medical treatments ever turned out to be detrimental? Or deemed immoral by later generations?) <font color="red">there is a big difference between epidemic control and other medical treatments. What vaccines have turned out to be immoral or detrimental? How many did they effect compared to the lives or morbidity saved? </font> The slippery slope involved in that power is also self-evident. <font color="red"> slippery slope arguments are stupid </font>

It's bad enough that they can throw you in jail for seeking certain medical treatments they have banned, but letting them impose the ones they like on you.. (hint: think of lobbyists and what they do for a living).

Anyway, to put not to fine a point on it, you are a complete fool if you think this is a power the govt should have. I'm sorry, there's no other way to put it. <font color="red"> no, you are the fool for thinking otherwise </font>

I had expected vehement defense of the public schools requiring vaccinations and even perhaps misguided defense of the entire system that makes a criminal out of a poor parent who can't aford private school, but I hadn't expected such a vehement support of pure tyranny.

Back to the situation at hand.

Assuming you are opposed to giving your child a chicken pox vaccination (and I myself am one of those parents), and you live in Maryland, this is your situation:

1. Government mandates that my child attend the local public school. <font color="red">no they dont </font>
2. School mandates that my child get a chicken pox vaccine, or be expelled. <font color="red"> and they should </font>
3. I'm too poor to move out of state or to pay private school tuition. <font color="red">so get them immunized </font>
4. School expels my child. <font color="red">and they should </font>
5. Government jails me on truancy charges. <font color="red"> no they dont, you have other alternatives </font>

That my friends is a systematic, subtle, yet undeniable tyranny over the poor.

natedogg

PS: Iron for the love of god learn how to do your job. If someone is ruining a thread by acting like an ass you should give them a temporary ban and let the rest of us grownups continue to discuss the issue. I'm assuming the previous thread was not locked due to the topic or the OP content. If so, then my mind if truly boggled.

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[Borodog]

natedogg,

1) Excellent OP

2) It looks like the waiver mentioned above might be a way out for you

3) I apologize for contributing to getting you last thread locked. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ConstantineX]

Natedogg,

I find that slippery slope arguments don't work for many people. Many people find it hard to be convinced the line between "good" and "bad" will necessarily be crossed by a functioning democratic government. And IMO unless the line is completely arbitrary or varies alot from person to person, they've got good points. If we inject the slightest bit of pragmatism into our policy proposals, we draw lines and sketch how we intend to protect them.

And I'm not sure you've convinced anyone who prior to the OP thought that "public health concerns" was a justifiable line. The difference between the government compelling forced sterilization and the government compelling vaccinations is a considerable externality argument, not a semantic difference.

[Copernicus]

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I find that slippery slope arguments don't work for many people.

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They shouldnt work for anyone. They are the ultimate strawman, forcing a debate about arguments that were never made and have uncertain and unmeasurable likelihood of ever being an issue.

[natedogg]

The slippery slope has already occurred. They've gone from polio to chicken pox.

natedogg