what does this push mean from a nit?

nickg1532 · #1 08-06-2007, 11:44 PM

villain is nitty, like 22/4/2 over 500 hands. for some reason, though, i don't recall anything more specific about his play, so i just have his stats

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($85.35)
Hero ($124.55)
MP ($124.25)
CO ($98.50)
Button ($92.25)
SB ($82.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, MP calls $4, CO raises to $16, 3 folds, Hero calls $12, MP raises to $124.25, CO folds, Hero ????

nickg1532 · #2 08-06-2007, 11:53 PM

oops, meant to post this in SSNL, but it can stay here too

jstill · #3 08-07-2007, 10:08 AM

wow weird line, I still think Id fold? I have seen this line from a semi less nitty player tho w/ JJ QQ so maybe TT or AKs isnt totally out of the range

try stoving it and seeing if its a profitable call vs a 4% raising range, if its not u can probably safely fold... if it is that doesnt prove u should call as his shoving range should be even tighter discounting AKo a ton (altho the lines weird to just call with KK or AA but nits do that esp in position, cuz everytime they 3bet "everyone folds" so they hate that feeling and just call or minraise, I also think people who one or two table are more likely to underplay AA or KK preflop just becuz it sucks more that one hand u get them and everyone folds if ur not playing a ton of hands).

My one thought was when u just call the 3bet ur hands a bit underrepresented but really u not folding defines ur range as decentish and a nit is still gonna be terrified by the 3bettor after a cold call if he has JJ AK ect...

Profish2285 · #4 08-07-2007, 10:13 AM

Honestly, despite his stats, I probably still call. You just dont see many players taking this line with AA, KK. I think this is AK a decent amount, but it could also be JJ or 1010 that just wants to take it down. I have seen players do this with very random holdings, all pocket pairs, and some random big cards. His stats suggest he wouldnt do that with such a wide range, but I dont think you can comfortably say he has AA or KK such a large amount that this is a clear fold.

4_2_it · #5 08-07-2007, 10:16 AM

This is very likely to be KK that is scared of an A flopping or AA sensing someone wants to stack off pre-flop. At best hero is flipping with AKs. A 22/4 isn't cold calling/re-shoving with trash. I'd put him on a very tight range.

MrWookie · #6 08-07-2007, 10:27 AM

If this was a limit player, my first inclination was that this was tilty spew, not AA. Even against an NL unknown, there has to be some of that considered. However, this guy hardly raises, and it's over a decent sample. I'd lean fold.

StellarWind · #7 08-07-2007, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If this was a limit player, my first inclination was that this was tilty spew, not AA.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually when a very tight/passive limit player backraises he usually has AA.

MrWookie · #8 08-07-2007, 01:09 PM

It depends. For me, when I see a coldcall/cap, it's more often of the "Well, might as well cap it" or "Bastard, I'll teach you to 3bet me!" variety compared to a standard LRR. Also if the nit has been running really good or really bad it's more likely cheese.

Frogic · #9 08-07-2007, 01:37 PM

Shouldn't we be looking at what the CO's range is? If he raises/threebets light, isn't it more likely that MP will do this with a lesser hand?

Frogic

nickg1532 · #10 08-07-2007, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't we be looking at what the CO's range is? If he raises/threebets light, isn't it more likely that MP will do this with a lesser hand?

Frogic

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm not sure that a 22/4 is giving that too much thought, unless CO is VERY aggressive. In any event, assume for now that CO is unknown. IMO an unknown's 3 bet range is pretty small, though maybe it's wide enough that I should have 4 bet (as some people in the SSNL thread recommended)