Bet this river with a nut flush?

Thundercat32 · #1 07-19-2006, 03:40 PM

First of all, I know I should not even of been in this hand with the junk I was playing, like once in a blue moon I limp with Ace-x suited for the flush draw, I very rarely do this.

I'm more concerned about whether a river bet would be a good idea in this situation. I wanted to make a value bet, but I didn't want to have to call a push

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 (t1030)
MP2 (t1930)
Hero (t1510)
CO (t1390)
Button (t1350)
SB : (Villian 1)/ (t1400)
BB : (Villian 2)/ (t3170)
UTG (t1760)
UTG+1 (t2970)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, 2 folds, Hero calls t20, 1 fold, Button calls t20, SB : (Villian 1)/ completes, BB : (Villian 2)/ checks.

Flop: (t100) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Villian 1 checks, Villian 2 bets t20, UTG+1 calls t20, Hero calls t20, Button folds, Villian 1 raises to t100, Villian 2 calls t80, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t80.

Turn: (t420) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Villian 1 bets t100, Villian 2 raises to t200, Hero calls t200, Villian 1 calls t100.

River: (t1020) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Villian 1 checks, Villian 2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t1020

gobboboy · #2 07-19-2006, 03:44 PM

Preflop is the only street here that you didn't mess up. Limping here is fine when you can make good plays postflop when you hit something favorable. You definitely did hit this flop hard in a 5 way pot.

Flop, I like the call when someone minbets because you wouldn't mind seeing a cheap turn and there's not much money there worth winning. Once the second villain raises, I would make a big reraise here to pick up the dead money and commit you to the pot. I'd raise it to about 900 or 1000 to go. There's lots of money in the pot and you wouldn't mind taking it down right here. He needs a pretty big hand to push, and in these large tournaments you need to be willing to gamble.

On the turn, you have the nuts. You call a bet and a minraise cold with said nuts. Make a reraise here. Why are you slowplaying?

You slowplay your hand and then don't valuebet on the river when the board pairs and both players check to you. This check behind is absolutely terrible. Valuebet EVERY DAY here. They are not trying to check/raise you on the river. I'm betting about 450 or 500.

AceLuby · #3 07-19-2006, 03:51 PM

If you can see a flop cheaply I say it's ok. So on with the hand.

PF: Fine, trying to see a flop cheaply and you did.
Flop: 1st call is fine, 2nd call is still ok.
Turn: There is 720 in the pot w/ a c/r PF and a lead/raise post flop. I think I value raise here to try to build a bigger pot,maybe take it down there or get it HU. I can't respect that min-raise.
River: I don't mind the check behind. You may get an extra bet or two if you do have the best hand, but I wouldn't want to be put to a decision for all my chips if one of these raise happy villains goes AI.

All in all, I think the only street I would play differently is the turn. I would raise to 5-600 total

Quanah Parker · #4 07-19-2006, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I wanted to make a value bet, but I didn't want to have to call a push

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't follow this at all.
Not wanting to call a push on the river?
Are you really scared of a str8flush here?

Beachman42 · #5 07-19-2006, 04:05 PM

If the early action is passive enough to see a flop for a limp, then I'll limp sooted Ax, sooted connectors, 22-55 pp, etc. So far, so good.

Flop - with so many in the pot, I'd prolly just call the min bet looking to hit a club on the turn. Pot isn't big enough to mess with when you called. However, when a LP villian raises & there is a call, its time to wake up. Here I'd re-pop to 400 & see what happens. If you get any more action, the pot odds support pushing or calling AI as you are ~35% to hit the nut flush.

Turn - don't slowplay the nuts in a donkament. the pot is 700 or so when it gets to you and you have 1400 behind. AI is an overbet, but I get called here sooooooooo often, that I'm prolly pushing. With the action so far, V2 is calling.

River - Quit looking for monsters under the bed. Bet anywhere from 500 to AI. You cannot afford to leave chips with the fishes here!

Beachman42 · #6 07-19-2006, 04:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I wanted to make a value bet, but I didn't want to have to call a push

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't follow this at all.
Not wanting to call a push on the river?
Are you really scared of a str8flush here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Board paired on the riv. OP was looking for a boat monster under his bed.

Thundercat32 · #7 07-19-2006, 04:07 PM

Quanah, no there is no possible straight flush, I was worried Villian 2 had been playing a set from the flop and somewhat worried he was trying to c/r

seke2 · #8 07-19-2006, 04:08 PM

Uh, obviously you bet that river. You played the whole hand pretty badly, IMHO.

Thundercat32 · #9 07-19-2006, 04:12 PM

seke2,

how so??? alot of people seem to think so, and I'm curious about your opinion.... I'm surprised I thought I just missed the river

Nez477 · #10 07-19-2006, 04:19 PM

Thunder,

What you really need to realize (and I'm sure you know this, and hence are posting) is that a good player probably could've stacked one of your opponents here. Instead you got about the minimum that you could from a very good hand.

Gobbo's line is great and will guarantee that you are putting PRESSURE on opponents. On the turn, put PRESSURE on your opponents. Don't just let them get away cheap because you are seeing monsters under the bed.

I'd say that hardly any of the winning MTT players on this site would smooth-call the turn. Slowplaying is very overrated. People love to call.

Your check behind is really bad, but you wouldn't even be in this situation if you would've played the previous streets better.

Brad