Rough Spot in reraised pot

[TheRempel]

Button I have no huge reads on, other than that he has played 30/5 in the few hundred hands I have played on him. The UTG+1 Cold-Caller cold calls too much but generally plays pretty straightforward post flop.

Party Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $56.90
UTG+1: $309.70
UTG+2: $550.68
MP1: $200
MP2: $133.50
MP3: $65.50
CO: $104
Button: $137.75
SB: $390.45
TheRempel: $432.55

Pre-flop: (10 players) TheRempel is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $6</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">TheRempel raises to $25</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($80, 3 players)
TheRempel checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $36</font>, TheRempel calls $36 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $116)</font>, UTG+1 folds.

What's the best line? Should I lead the flop and why?

[pete fabrizio]

I don't mind your line b/c I'd like to see what's up with UTG+1. I prob just put the button all-in after the other guy checked though.

[TheRempel]

Normally I would too. The only problem I have with that line is that the cold-caller is the type of player to check a lot of hands hoping the button bets, so raising in this situation IMO is the same as leading the flop.

[GAL]

I'd play this exactly the same unless UTG+1 was as you describe him, then I'd usually lead.

[TheRempel]

Well personally I think the best line if the UTG player is hoping for a button bet is check-call the flop and call his push getting like 2.5-3:1 on my bare NFD.

Leading out or reraising the shortie when he makes this small bet is generally going to be a mistake on this board because it's FR and I'm only getting action from UTG+1 when he has a set or straight. If I check-call he may just push something like two pair + a gutter which I am in very good shape against considering the price I am getting to call.

Basically by leading out I only ever get the money in as a 2:1 dog, but by check-calling I will often be 30% on the main pot and 50% or better on the side pot.

The SB kinda fouled things a bit here with his small bet since it tells UTG+1 pretty much exactly what I have.

It worked out in the end though, I put him on KK or maybe the straight, the turn was the 4c, I set him in, and he called with QcTcJ8.

[GAL]

Sorry didn't see stack sizes. Just quickly done the math, is it $204 to win $555 if UTG+1 does CR and shortie calls?
After looking at it I think you are right if your looking to get all in here vs UTG+1 but will he CR all in here with 2pr type hands once you overcall?
The reason I say I would lead here is because by checking and calling you are giving UTG+1 more chance to play perfectly, which he did, he will fold weak hands to your overcall and push his straights and sets. Also what will you do if he doesn't CR and just calls and the turn is a KQJT9 or 8?
CCing in the hope that he will push some 2pr type hands that you will then have the odds to call for, if he does have those hands, doesn't change the fact that you seem to be looking to get your money in here as a dog, correct odds or not.
If thats what you want to do just lead and take the FE and if he pushes great, same result.

[TheRempel]

Basically I think the best play here is to play either a smaller pot hopefully just against the shorty or a very big 3 way all in pot.

You are wrong about allowing UTG to play perfectly by checking. Leading allows him to play pretty much optimally since he will raise with sets and the nut straight and fold everything else, While I may be unconcerned about getting my money in as a dog my play is +EV while leading out and getting it all in when I can only be a 2:1 dog or worse when we do play a big pot is pure spew. If the shortie effectively pushes and the turn is an ugly card, it's a protected pot. He will not bluff in a protected pot. There is 0 FE on this board. Any hands I stand a chance of beating without making a flush I want to play a pot with.

[grizy]

I honestly prefer remple's line here. Class axiom, either slightly ahead (vs two pair) or wayyyy behind.

[beset]

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly prefer remple's line here. Class axiom, either slightly ahead (vs two pair) or wayyyy behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like his line too but he it is hard to be wayyyy behind

[grizy]

against a short stack, fair enough. but here we can get committed with our entire stack as a 2 to 1 dog... that's pretty far behind.

Rempel explained it well, basically he's flipping at best and in all other cases he's chewing on 2 to 1 at best. that's not a menu I'd like to spend my entire stack on.