A hand vs peter_rus

spoohunter · #1 10-23-2006, 07:24 PM

I intended to c/r most flops, which is why I didn't cap preflop.

Party Poker 100/200 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: (4.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

steveyz · #2 10-23-2006, 07:46 PM

I'd prefer just capping this most of the time pf barring some read. Not capping is ok some of the time.

Given that you didn't cap, it's time to fold this flop. Almost as bad as a flop as you can imagine for your holding. If you want to continue, you should be c/ring the flop; at least you could fold some better hands (directly or with a turn bet) by doing that.

Fianchetto · #3 10-23-2006, 07:49 PM

That is such an ugly board for your hand, I mean is folding the flop too weak here?

Pretty sure I'd fold the river too.

dcb777 · #4 10-23-2006, 10:42 PM

I like a fold on the flop. Given you didn't play this strongly I don't mind getting away from your hand cheaply (although this may seem against conventional wisom). You don't lose any more from folding and since you don't have a diamond and the pot is small I can't see how this fold is bad.

DeeJ · #5 11-01-2006, 09:10 AM

I think this is fine. After he checks behind on the turn, I'm going to call the river because I think there's at least a 35% chance (ie 1BB to win half the pot of 5.75) he's going to bet into a board flush because you are more likely to not have a diamond than you are likely to have a diamond, thus you are more likely to be behind (hence his bet). He would not be expecting a river check-raise unless you had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] so his risk is small.

I am sure there is a related Clarkmeister theorum that applies somehow.

Edit : how would you have played it differently if you had had K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ?

The DaveR · #6 11-01-2006, 11:54 AM

It really looks like he's value betting the river because he can bet/fold so many hands safely on the turn.

elindauer · #7 11-02-2006, 09:18 PM

I think you misplayed this hand in a couple spots, but the one I find most interesting is the river. You called, so you must feel there is a better than 1/3 chance that he doesn't have a diamond. But if you think that, wouldn't that betting out or check-raising clearly superior? I mean, if you can call getting 3:1, you can surely raise getting 7:1 to fold a better hand and the 4:1 to fold a hand that chops. Betting out getting 5:1 also seems pretty clearly better than checking and calling.

You could also very reasonably just fold the flop. If you don't, then a raise is probably better... give yourself a chance to get a quick fold. Calling feels wrong as you are out of position with little hope of anything good happening the rest of the way.

my 2 cents.
eric

Keepitsimple · #8 11-03-2006, 10:26 AM

Your 2 cents are worth a lot elindauer. Excellent post

Schneids · #9 11-03-2006, 11:12 AM

Fold the river.

What hands are he checking with on the turn?
- Showdownable hands that don't want to see a checkraise
...small-medium diamonds
...maybe top pair or set-hands.

What hands are he betting the turn with?
- Hands that don't care if you checkraise
...No pair no draw nothing
...Big diamonds
......And even then, he might bet the turn with TP or a set.

What does this mean? That his river bet is for value and is a medium diamond. If he didn't bet the turn with no diamond, he's probably not going to bet the river now with no diamond. But if you really think he could, then checkraise is better than check/call.

Basically, my river plays would be:

check/fold > check/raise > check/call

I personally don't think a river bet does anything, because he's either got a diamond he was showing down cheaply and you lose, or now he's going to call you thinking it's better than 33% you have no diamond (simple math/logic should dictate that to be the case)

ChexNFX · #10 11-06-2006, 02:53 AM

Congratulations Schneids on your Canterbury tourney win.