Efficient first steps for a long journey

[MineForTheTaking]

This is my first post ever, but I can already tell i'll be spending a lot of time here. Like many others, I've decided to start dating poker full time. I've always had a good theoretical/emotional approach to hold'em, but when i started reading postings I realized how much i am lacking in the technical approach. I have had a few stints on and off with online poker over the years, and although i get better everytime i come back, the field has a noticeable edge. I now see how important posting is, and i want to have a successful start, so riddle me these....

1. how many poker sites should i join(U.S.)? right now, i'm just on full tilt because it is shiny and pretty.

2. I know pokertracker is a must, and i don't have it yet. Should i get the other stuff that enhances it? like the hub stuff?

3. I know a large number of sample hands is required, but how many should i have before posting questions about my stats?

4. While getting hands into pokertracker to prepare for my first review, should I multi table? or just play one table while intently focusing on all of the seemingly insignificant tendencies that may pan out into exploitable weaknesses.

5. What about cardrunner? is it useful?

6. Anything else that i might be forgetting? like some program that everyone has that i might not have heard of.

That should be sufficient to keep me busy for a while. thanks for reading superlong post.

[Sushiglutton]

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1. how many poker sites should i join(U.S.)? right now, i'm just on full tilt because it is shiny and pretty.


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If u are just getting stared u have a lot of bonuses to collect. My advice is to never play unless you are trying to clear a bonus. This way u will build a BR faster and will have some marginal while learning. This is if u play .5/1 or higher. So start up stars and party and maybe some other. Check out what offers u can get. If u play nano-limit stay at oe site.

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2. I know pokertracker is a must, and i don't have it yet. Should i get the other stuff that enhances it? like the hub stuff?


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Don't know.

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3. I know a large number of sample hands is required, but how many should i have before posting questions about my stats?


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Of course no excact rules. 10k hands is standard I think before analyzing stats becomes a little bit interesting. Focus on individual decissions instead. If u play very bad hundred hands will usually be enough to see that (such as VPIP of 50% at FR).

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4. While getting hands into pokertracker to prepare for my first review, should I multi table? or just play one table while intently focusing on all of the seemingly insignificant tendencies that may pan out into exploitable weaknesses.


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If u play 6max I recomend only one table in the beginning because u need to learn to pick up reads. If u play FR I would play 2 tables. It's simply too boring to play a single FR table.

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6. Anything else that i might be forgetting? like some program that everyone has that i might not have heard of.


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Poker stove is useful for analyzing hands.


Gl to u!! See u at the forums!

[Bona]

Since you are just starting (or at least new starting) I suggest you consider a balanced and planned approach to learning poker much as you would any other discipline. Some of the components you should have are:

1) Library- There are dozens of good books, You probably won't get agreement from everyone on which is best but most here probably use "Theory ofPoker", "Small Stakes Hold 'em", and "Hold 'em for Advanced Players" at least. There are several other very good ones but those three are probably a good start. Don't just own them, read, re read, digest.

2) This forum is a very good choice if you are going to play micro or nano stakes limit hold 'em. Congratulations on finding it and welcome. Read the FAQ's, the "sticky" threads, and the digests as they appear.

As far as sites go it probably doesn't matter but any new ones you join, look into a rake back deal before joining. I made the mistake of joining 4 wih no rakeback and wish I could do that part over. One is really enough to start if it has the games, stakes, and table selection you need. Bankroll management issues starting out might make playing on only one or two sites the right choice.

I have PokerTracker, PAHUD, PokerStove, PokerGrapher, Equilator. I primarily use Flop,Turn,River for hand converasions. You will have to mess around with those quite a bit to get comfortable with their use but while they are all very handy and helpful, they are not a critical part of the learning process. I don't know anything about cardrunner.

I am still in an early intermediate stage myself and I continue to think that reading the forum posts along with the books, playing a lot, reviewing my own hands via PT, and participating in session reviews is the basis for learning. It seems you can become a winning player in a very few weeks but optimizing your play will take much longer. I have been working on it for quite a while and can't see myself becoming truly proficient any time soon.

When you post opinions or hands include your thought processess because that will allow others to critique more usefully. Ignore the sarcasm and/or worse that goes along with the posting and seek out the theory behind the opinions. You will get a lot of opinions and they won't always agree. Thats where you own judgement takes over.

As far as number of hands, meh, it seems the more hands an individual poster has on file the more they think it takes to be useful. In reality it does take quite a few because stats don't present reality unless you have enough trials. The problem is each type of statistic takes a different level of history to converge. Probably don't get too caught up in stats anyway. Use them as benchmarks and consider what tendencies you have that create them rather than striving to get to a certain stat level. Go ahead and post your stat questions if they are of concern to you without worrying too much about the comments you get back. Use the comments that address your concern. Forget the rest. On the other hand, if you are thin skinned wait until you get about 20k hands.

Your first goal should be getting to and maintaining a + win rate. Start and play at level where you can accomplish that. Many here have started at .02/.04 and have moved up gradually as their confidence , bankroll, and playing ability has grown.

The rest will come with effort. Just like any other learning process.

Welcome to the forum. I'd wish you good luck but over time, luck has nothing to do with it. So I will wish you continued growth.

[bennyhana]

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I primarily use Flop,Turn,River for hand converasions.

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sorry, but this made me laugh.

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Your first goal should be getting to and maintaining a + win rate.

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I wouldn't make this your first goal. I think your first goal should be studying and trying to get the grasp on EV. Your winrate will come later, you need to first concentrate on playing well, no matter the results.

[Bona]

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I primarily use Flop,Turn,River for hand converasions.

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sorry, but this made me laugh.

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Your first goal should be getting to and maintaining a + win rate.

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I wouldn't make this your first goal. I think your first goal should be studying and trying to get the grasp on EV. Your winrate will come later, you need to first concentrate on playing well, no matter the results.

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hehe haven't you noticed some of my hands appear converated [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Thomas Newton]

SSHE p.60-93

[Smurph64]

Superlong post? Surely you jest.

At any rate welcome to the world of posting and congrats for asking some really good questions.

Obviously a l lot of our answers are going to be tainted by personal experience but here goes.

1. I would join PS if only for the reason that it has the most games and there are 2+2ers who play there all the time and can be shadowed or available for a donk/sweat fest session.

Other than that, I think centralizing your bankroll is the most important thing but if you have more money than you need to bankroll with at a level you are comfortable playing then spread out.

So FT have a full bankroll for your current lvl, and PS you can just put in the minimum and have it there for the lowest limits. After that you can expand when you have a full bankroll.

PT or PO are excellent tools to use and from my pov should be purchased ASAP.

20k is a decent number to look at stats wise anything else is usually more an indication of how you are running. (other than starting hand issues of course)

Multi-tabling is not a beginner endeavor at all. It sets up many bad habits and while building your hand base up faster doesn't necessarily build up your bankroll faster.

Currently I multi-table 4 when I feel good for about 40 minutes to an hour and that is only after the last year that I felt I was solid enough to be able to make the proper decisions fast enough.

Multi-table sessions run about .5 bb less than per table for me, so depending on your edge against the competition and your own skills this number may vary.

Definitely use single table sessions for hand reviews, and discuss as much information as you can with the reviewer if you want to get the most out of it.

Quite often its the hands that you think are insignificant which prove the most valuable because read information is discussed.

Sharing read information from the tables is not something that comes easily in single hand post discussions.

Good luck and hope to hear from you many times in the future.

[Smurph64]

I don't agree with playing bonuses exclusively to start. I have played UB for its sign up bonus only and wish I hadn't even done that yet.

Unless you have a very clear idea of how to play poker and have a sufficient bankroll to clear them quickly, I think starting with bonuses is wasting money.

Granted UB is not the fastest to clear but, some sites now have the bonus tied to pots you enter not just hands you get cards for that have a rake.

This greatly affects the way you may play and ultimately the bonus you collect could be offset by the way you have to play to feel like you are going to hit the bonus if its timed.

So all I am saying is, be very picky on what sites you play with to start.

[MineForTheTaking]

ok, so, nevermind the bonuses, i'll just stick to FT and then pokerstars with any extra cash i have. is that picky enouugh? i think you'll say yes.

[MineForTheTaking]

you mentioned PT(pokertracker) but what is PO? I heard great things about poker hud, and i plan on getting that. I'll look into pokerstove and some of the graphing software also...small price to pay right? for a neccessary edge....