Legality of running a raked game?

[jbrent33]

Has anyone ever been arrested for running (or playing in) a raked game? If so what was the outcome ie. fines, money siezed, probation, etc?

Also please include the state where this happened.

Thanks,
JB

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone ever been arrested for running (or playing in) a raked game? If so what was the outcome ie. fines, money siezed, probation, etc?

Also please include the state where this happened.

Thanks,
JB

[/ QUOTE ]

Search the internet- the short answers are:

Yes
Fines, seizures and convictions (most often for the house)
Pick a state

Are you looking to start an illegal (in most, if not all US states) underground card room, or just play in one?

Check your local and state laws, that will give you your answers more exactly.

[jbrent33]

I'm considering running a small (100 buy-in no more than 45 people) tournament. I have played in several nicer underground card rooms without much worry of being arrested or robbed. I was just curious as to what penalties I might face if I was caught.

I did google it and had a hard time finding a concrete answer. I was looking for someone with personal experience.

[Khabbi]

You will be robbed. The game is too big and you won't know/trust everyone.

You're more likely to get robbed than busted by the cops.

You might get away with it a few time, but eventually you will be robbed/busted.

If you want to play in big tourneys, go to the casino.

[crackerjack]

well... here's some of my experience. I run a MTT tourney every week at a bar. We have anywhere from 25 people to 60 people every week. It's a $40 entry with 3k in starting chips. I'm from Ontario Canada.
The bar doesn't take a rake, however they do indirectly make a profit from alcohol and food.
I have been running it for about 3 years and have not been shut down yet.

[jbrent33]

[ QUOTE ]
You will be robbed. The game is too big and you won't know/trust everyone.

You're more likely to get robbed than busted by the cops.


You might get away with it a few time, but eventually you will be robbed/busted.

If you want to play in big tourneys, go to the casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not as concerned with being robbed as I am charged with a felony. I've played for several years in room that usually has 20-30K on the tables without any incedent. Have you ever been robbed in a poker room?

While I won't know everyone, I will know most people, and strangers will have to have someone I do know vouch for them. I'm not going to be putting up flyers or advertising on craiglist.

Most of the people playing will be young professionals, not the type of people who would risk their life for a few thousand dollars.

Also I'm at least 600 miles from a casino so that makes a driving to a weekly 100 dollar buy-in -EV

[MTUCache]

[ QUOTE ]
You will be robbed. The game is too big and you won't know/trust everyone.

You're more likely to get robbed than busted by the cops.

You might get away with it a few time, but eventually you will be robbed/busted.

If you want to play in big tourneys, go to the casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn... that's pretty harsh there. You must have had some bad experiences, or be in a really rough neighborhood.

Seriously, I know a guy who's been running a cardroom in his basement for over a year now, at least 2-3 nights per week with 25+ people tourneys every other week, less than 10 miles outside of Detroit and he's never been robbed. (Note: I'm talking about $5k of action in the room, not $20-30k like OP is.)

Of course... having childhood friends in the local police department, and having a dozen cops in your basement gambling every weekend does kinda deter the criminals though.

I'm being completely serious here. Get a friend that's a cop. It will guarantee that your game is not only safe from robbery, but also safe from cops. As long as you keep him happy (i.e., teach him how to not completely suck at poker), you're gold.

Hell, this buddy of mine that runs this cardroom, he's actually HOSTED tourney/charity-events for two different local police departments. There can be guys getting high in his basement and the cops don't say CRAP, as long as they've got chips in front of them and they're having a good time.

Keep cops happy = Safe, fair, non-busted home game.

[jbrent33]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You will be robbed. The game is too big and you won't know/trust everyone.

You're more likely to get robbed than busted by the cops.

You might get away with it a few time, but eventually you will be robbed/busted.

If you want to play in big tourneys, go to the casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn... that's pretty harsh there. You must have had some bad experiences, or be in a really rough neighborhood.

Seriously, I know a guy who's been running a cardroom in his basement for over a year now, at least 2-3 nights per week with 25+ people tourneys every other week, less than 10 miles outside of Detroit and he's never been robbed. (Note: I'm talking about $5k of action in the room, not $20-30k like OP is.)

Of course... having childhood friends in the local police department, and having a dozen cops in your basement gambling every weekend does kinda deter the criminals though.

I'm being completely serious here. Get a friend that's a cop. It will guarantee that your game is not only safe from robbery, but also safe from cops. As long as you keep him happy (i.e., teach him how to not completely suck at poker), you're gold.

Hell, this buddy of mine that runs this cardroom, he's actually HOSTED tourney/charity-events for two different local police departments. There can be guys getting high in his basement and the cops don't say CRAP, as long as they've got chips in front of them and they're having a good time.

Keep cops happy = Safe, fair, non-busted home game.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm talking about doing is very similar to this, I can't imagine ever having 30K on a table in my basement. I guess I need to make friends with some cops, I generally avoid them like the plague. I do have drinks with a probation officer from time to time, I guess I should invite him and try to get his cop buddies to come along.

[nowags]

Colorado:

Running a raked game is a felony.
Playing in a raked game is a Petty Offense. Multiple offenses for playing gets you upgraded to a Misdemeanor.

From what i know, if you are playing and the cops come, you lose whatever money you have in, I think they take your name, and that's pretty much it. If you're running the game, then obv. you are screwed.

The casino's here in Colorado put pressure to get the underground games shut down, so people will drive up to them to play in tournaments etc. Apparently it works. A couple underground games got busted, and the size of the casino tournaments almost doubled, according to a friend of mine.

So, In addition to checking the state laws, be extra careful if there is a casino within a couple hundred miles.

Edit: the games that got busted were small stakes. They ran 1/2 nl cash games and tourneys with $100 or so buy in. They didn't involve huge amounts of money.

[MTUCache]

[ QUOTE ]
What I'm talking about doing is very similar to this, I can't imagine ever having 30K on a table in my basement. I guess I need to make friends with some cops, I generally avoid them like the plague. I do have drinks with a probation officer from time to time, I guess I should invite him and try to get his cop buddies to come along.

[/ QUOTE ]

Back towards your topic though... why the rake?

Sure, you'd like to make some money (or at least break even) when you're hosting a game this size. You've got to pay for chips, you're probably providing some sort of refreshment, and you're the one stuck cleaning up the next day... I can understand wanting to take a small cut.

But a rake? That's a bad idea in all sorts of ways.

First, obviously, it's illegal. I don't know all the details you're looking for, but you obviously realize that it's not the greatest idea.

Second, it's frowned upon by your players.

Third, how are you going to manage a rake on this many tables? Unless you're hiring dealers and making a full-on Boiler Room situation, it's going to be much more trouble than it's worth.

Plus, taking a rake out of every pot is just a constant reminder to all the players of how you're "screwing" them. A couple of unhappy players get too worked up, and you can guarantee there's going to be some investigation into your activities.

When I'm playing in a private room (generally, 99% of the time it's in my buddy's house), it's a pretty clear-cut situation. It's BYOB. A couple guys will bring a little bit of food (several guys own or run restaurants, so this is a no-brainer). A couple other guys will volunteer to head to the local store and pick up some other stuff (generally we all give the big winner from the previous tourney the stink-eye until he does this for everyone). Before the tourney starts he'll ask for a few dollars in "donations" to cover his expenses for the evening (chips, cleaning, etc), and he's covered and done with it. Then the fun commences and everybody forgets that they started $5 down. He breaks even (or makes a few bucks on the night), and nobody is even the slightest bit put-out or upset.

This way it's a grey area at best... he's just accepting "donations", and he's definitely not turning any kind of a profit because of it. If you do get in trouble, you've got reciepts for where the money went, and generally he's not the one paying for stuff anyway. Hell, I've even seen him give out the "extra" money from the evening in a BBJackpot for the tourney (enough to cover their buy-in).

Just to let you know, if you have cops at your game, there will be weapons there. It's a little unsettling at first, until you get to know the players, but if you'd prefer not to involve weapons in your situation you may want to gently remind them before they come over. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]