The New York Back Raise...25/50 Live

[dlpnyc21]

I have played in Vegas, AC, Foxwoods, LA, and online, and I have never seen the back raise used as prominently/effectively it's used in the NYC games. I generally refrain from using it, but I am continually in awe with how much it's used and in what situations it works.

I decided to try one in an interesting spot in a 25/50 live game recently. The game is 7 handed, with stacks ranging from 25-50k.

Sometimes there is a straddle, but in this hand there is not. A relatively tight player opens utg+2 to 400 and I decide to smooth call with QQ. Generally, I reraise here, but I call with big pairs from time to time, as well.

The button is a young player who I had never seen before, but who had been playing aggressively and bluffing more than most. He was apparently up 30k before I got to the game, but he had lost most of that back within the time I was in the game, mainly by bluffing in spots that didn't make much sense, such as a hand where he reraised pre, got called, bet an A55ss flop, was called, bet 5k on a 5 turn, was called, and checked folded the A river (he later claimed to have 97ss).

That said, he definitely reraises more than most preflop in this game. Other than that he seems decent.

Onto the hand, effective stacks 25k. Utg+2 opens, I smooth his 400 raise with QQ, the button (villian in the hand) makes it 1500 to go.

This is when the hand gets interesting, the SB cold calls. The BB then cold calls, and the original raiser calls as well!

I most likely have the sb, bb, and original raiser beat, but I can't be sure.

It's back on me. What do people think of a backraise here??
What amount should I raise to optimally?

If I make it 10k straight, and the reraiser shoves for 14k more, do I call if everyone else folded?

Should I make it less? Not backraise at all? Do reraise more or less to alter the odds I lay myself to a shove?

I decided to make it 10400 to go, and the original reraiser shoved VERY quickly, everyone else folded, and it was 13000 more to me.

Thanks,
dlpnyc21

[Josh.]

if you have intentions of at least considering folding it, i'd make it like 8k, and i doubt that's even small enough to then fold vs the button. as is you're getting 3-1 having effectively put in a squeeze vs a very aggro opponent who is stuck a lot recently.

[DJ Sensei]

when i was a relatively inexperienced bigger live NL player, I fell for the backraise a few times, and shoved random stuff in pretty much the same spot as the kid here (though giving worse odds on the call) because I didn't buy it. Each time I was shown a big pair. So I'd stack off here, he's probably just confused.

But i'd give him more rope in the first place probably.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
when i was a relatively inexperienced bigger live NL player, I fell for the backraise a few times, and shoved random stuff in pretty much the same spot as the kid here (though giving worse odds on the call) because I didn't buy it. Each time I was shown a big pair. So I'd stack off here, he's probably just confused.

But i'd give him more rope in the first place probably.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are my exact thoughts, Id raise a little less and INSTA call a shove from the dude who made it 1500

[Dale Dough]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
when i was a relatively inexperienced bigger live NL player, I fell for the backraise a few times, and shoved random stuff in pretty much the same spot as the kid here (though giving worse odds on the call) because I didn't buy it. Each time I was shown a big pair. So I'd stack off here, he's probably just confused.

But i'd give him more rope in the first place probably.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are my exact thoughts, Id raise a little less and INSTA call a shove from the dude who made it 1500

[/ QUOTE ]

Thirded. The first thought that popped to mind is the time I lost 250BB because the LAST person to call the original raise played back at my squeeze. I was stuck a lot also, and got shown KK. It's VERY tempting and easy to convince yourself that the guy is [censored] with you and 88/AJ/w/e is good.

[IRIVERU]

how would you have played the 97ss dave..i gave up on the river..i bet the flop incase he floats with kings and the 5 on the turn makes a full for both of us but i most likely have an ace if i bet the turn but im not sure what do u think

[IRIVERU]

and btw what did u have in the hand where it was 8jk with 2 diamonds cause i had 87 where the dude on ur left made a 1k donk bet and u called and i made it 4k

sick

[BobboFitos]

once yuo raise, it's the easiest call ever.

[TheWorstPlayer]

reraise to whatever commits you and call a push