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| View Poll Results: a girl kept looking at me at class today. Do you think it is because: | |||
| She thinks Im hot |
   
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40 | 29.41% |
| She thinks Im wierd looking |
  
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48 | 35.29% |
| She is attracted to my odd nature in a non sexual way |
  
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48 | 35.29% |
| Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#101
09-26-2006, 02:51 PM
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Re: Fences vs Walls
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[ QUOTE ] So, if you think it will be "a wash," i.e. that there's no economic benefit to restricting immigration then you're advocating taking away people's rights simply for the sake of taking away their rights. "You have fewer human rights because you were born on that side of the Rio Grande" is abhorrent, but that's basically what you're saying. [/ QUOTE ] Mexico sucks. The USA is better. If I was Mexican I would enter the USA legally or illegally. The difference would be is that I would be much more respectful and grateful to the USA. [/ QUOTE ] Much more grateful and respectful than who? 
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#102
09-26-2006, 02:56 PM
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Re: Fences vs Walls
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As for the Berlin Wall, it was physical barrier and there were armed guards with orders to shoot on sight. But the Berlin Wall was built with 1950s technology. The border wall will be built with the latest cameras and survalence technology. This is an advantage the Berlin Wall did not have. Obviously the border patrol is not going to shoot people on sight. [/ QUOTE ] Except even with the most advanced surveillance technology, orders to "go back" are eventually enforced at the point of a gun. A wall will lead to nothing more than a new, Mexican generation of Peter Fechters. [ QUOTE ] I think it will be a wash. Welfare and medical costs will decrease but prices of produce/construction will go up. Another benefit is employment among uneducated blacks will increase. Educated blacks have been hurt the most by illegal immigration. If we curb illegal immigration, I believe black employment will improve and crime will go down. [/ QUOTE ] So, if you think it will be "a wash," i.e. that there's no economic benefit to restricting immigration then you're advocating taking away people's rights simply for the sake of taking away their rights. "You have fewer human rights because you were born on that side of the Rio Grande" is abhorrent, but that's basically what you're saying. [/ QUOTE ] Even if it is a wash, the costs are disproportionately allocated. The top two quintiles of taxpayers in this country pay around 90% of the total federal income taxes. Increases to welfare costs due to illegal immigration are shouldered by primarily by these taxpayers. Do they receive 90% of the benefits due to illegal immigration? [/ QUOTE ] Duh, increases in ANYTHING (Including a wall, etc) paid for by federal taxes will be paid for by them as well, so a wash is a wash.
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#103
09-26-2006, 03:06 PM
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Re: Fences vs Walls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As for the Berlin Wall, it was physical barrier and there were armed guards with orders to shoot on sight. But the Berlin Wall was built with 1950s technology. The border wall will be built with the latest cameras and survalence technology. This is an advantage the Berlin Wall did not have. Obviously the border patrol is not going to shoot people on sight. [/ QUOTE ] Except even with the most advanced surveillance technology, orders to "go back" are eventually enforced at the point of a gun. A wall will lead to nothing more than a new, Mexican generation of Peter Fechters. [ QUOTE ] I think it will be a wash. Welfare and medical costs will decrease but prices of produce/construction will go up. Another benefit is employment among uneducated blacks will increase. Educated blacks have been hurt the most by illegal immigration. If we curb illegal immigration, I believe black employment will improve and crime will go down. [/ QUOTE ] So, if you think it will be "a wash," i.e. that there's no economic benefit to restricting immigration then you're advocating taking away people's rights simply for the sake of taking away their rights. "You have fewer human rights because you were born on that side of the Rio Grande" is abhorrent, but that's basically what you're saying. [/ QUOTE ] Even if it is a wash, the costs are disproportionately allocated. The top two quintiles of taxpayers in this country pay around 90% of the total federal income taxes. Increases to welfare costs due to illegal immigration are shouldered by primarily by these taxpayers. Do they receive 90% of the benefits due to illegal immigration? [/ QUOTE ] Duh, increases in ANYTHING (Including a wall, etc) paid for by federal taxes will be paid for by them as well, so a wash is a wash. [/ QUOTE ] The costs paid for by taxpayers include welfare and medical costs. They are washed out by benefits that include lower produce costs, construction costs, etc. These are disproportionately allocated. The comparison was not being made between the cost of border security measures versus the increased cost of welfare/health care, as you apparently thought. You can't possibly compare the cost of the wall versus the benefit of lowered welfare/health costs unless you are willing to put a number on how many people it will actually keep out. We've all seen how well that has gone so far is this thread.
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#104
09-26-2006, 03:10 PM
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Re: Fences vs Walls
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I dont agree that the economics will be a wash. I think illegal immigration has far greater costs than benefits, and reducing it will have positive economic impact. However, to your post, what "rights" would be violated by a fence/wall? [/ QUOTE ] As I understand it, his opinion is that being allowed to cross whatever border you like, whenever you like, for whatever reason you like, is a fundamental human right.
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#105
09-26-2006, 03:13 PM
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Cop Arrest Illegal for Speeding.....Illegal Murders Cop
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#106
09-26-2006, 03:15 PM
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Re: Fences vs Walls
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http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pjim05.pdf Blacks = 38.9% of the US prison population. And blacks represent around......12.9% of the US population. This is implies blacks are 3x times more likely to be targeted by police, get caught "committing a crime," be convicted, and then subsequently be imprisoned. [/ QUOTE ] Post fixed to represent reality rather than some "blacks have the criminal gene" argument that was likely taken from a KKK pamphlet.
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#107
09-26-2006, 03:18 PM
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Re: Cop Arrest Illegal for Speeding.....Illegal Murders Cop
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http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?...004&page=1 [/ QUOTE ] Taken straight from a google news search for "cop killer": http://www.wndu.com/news/092006/news_52853.php Time to arrest all white people they're all cop killers I tells ya.
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#108
09-26-2006, 03:38 PM
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Re: Cop Arrest Illegal for Speeding.....Illegal Murders Cop
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[ QUOTE ] http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?...004&page=1 [/ QUOTE ] Taken straight from a google news search for "cop killer": http://www.wndu.com/news/092006/news_52853.php Time to arrest all white people they're all cop killers I tells ya. [/ QUOTE ] This story is so perfectly crafted it sounds fake. A pedophile illegal immigrant kills a married cop, father of 5, who received a medal of honor for pulling children from a burning building.
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#109
09-26-2006, 03:58 PM
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Re: Cop Arrest Illegal for Speeding.....Illegal Murders Cop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?...004&page=1 [/ QUOTE ] Taken straight from a google news search for "cop killer": http://www.wndu.com/news/092006/news_52853.php Time to arrest all white people they're all cop killers I tells ya. [/ QUOTE ] This story is so perfectly crafted it sounds fake. A pedophile illegal immigrant kills a married cop, father of 5, who received a medal of honor for pulling children from a burning building. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not going to bother reading the story (and I am contemplating putting the poster who put the link up on ignore), but I do have a couple questions: Why is the accused's diplomatic status important with respect to this crime? Is there some kind of particular circumstances that indicate he would not do this in his native country? Are individuals born on US soil inherently more important than individuals born elsewhere (thereby making his crime more wrong since he killed a US cop rather than a cop from his own country)? and how is it relevant to this thread? What conclusions would the poster have us draw from this? Are these conclusions (whatever they are) debatable?
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#110
09-26-2006, 04:04 PM
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Re: Fences vs Walls
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[ QUOTE ] I dont agree that the economics will be a wash. I think illegal immigration has far greater costs than benefits, and reducing it will have positive economic impact. However, to your post, what "rights" would be violated by a fence/wall? [/ QUOTE ] As I understand it, his opinion is that being allowed to cross whatever border you like, whenever you like, for whatever reason you like, is a fundamental human right. [/ QUOTE ] I think libertarians are for open borders but am not sure. They are also against welfare and such so in a libertarian world even though people could come here no welfare or free things paid for by taxpayers would be available. It would be self pay or provided by charity as I understand it. I consider myself libertarian but it has been a while since I have read up on their policies.
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