The $1 Billion Dollar - 700 Mile fence on the Mexican Border and more

[iron81]

Cardcounter, please knock it off calling for Felix to be banned. If he says something offensive, use the notify moderator button: its more effective and we can skip the drama. And then after Ryan Beal confirms its OK, kindly STFU. I for one do not believe Felix has done anything wrong here.

Edit: Actually, pretty much everything Felix has said here was wrong, just not bannable.

[Superfluous Man]

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1. Hit-and-Run accidents are an epidemic in the USA.
Most illegal aliens do not buy auto insurance because the either fear being reported to the authorities or they don't wish to spend the money on it. Hit-and-run accidents are HIGHEST (per capita) in areas with high illegal popuations.


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Perhaps if anyone who wanted to emigrate to the US were allowed in (without, you know, fear of being thrown out for having been arbitrarily labeled "illegal"), they wouldn't be so reticent to get auto insurance? It's obvious that making immigration illegal caused this problem in the first place.

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2. Abuse of Health Services
The last count I heard was 14 border hospitals have been shut down in southern California due to financial problems caused by unpaid bills. In the USA, hospitals are required to provide healthcare regardless of ability to pay. In Dallas, the county hospital sent a bill for $20million to mexico for unpaid health bills by illegal immigrants. The Mexican govt has refused to pay these bills.


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This is a problem with the welfare state, not immigrants. I don't hear you complaining when Joe Redneck, born and bred to white parents in the great state of Kentucky, goes to the hospital for getting his mullet caught in a lawn mower and then can't afford to pay the bills.

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3. Crime.
Mexico has a BIG crime problem. The last I heard was 25% of the US prison population are illegal immigrants.


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Last I heard you're pulling numbers out of your ass to support your obviously racist theory that people with too much melanin are criminals. Here is a fact: As of 2005, "Overall, 6.4% of State and Federal inmates at midyear 2005 were not U.S. citizens." That is taken from the Department of Justice.

So, even if ALL of the noncitizens in jail were "illegals," it doesn't even amount to more than six and a half percent. A far cry from your 25% number.

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4. Abuse of Welfare System.
Federal judges have declared it is illegal to deny welfare to illegal immigrants. Californian' prop 287 was passed then vetoed by federal judges.


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But you're fine with Joe Redneck and Jane Twelvekids getting welfare because they happened to be born on the "right" side of an arbitrary border? Again, the problem is welfare itself.

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5. Attacks on the American Culture
English is the glue that unties the USA. Many illegals that have settled in the USA choose not to learn English (their choice) but they fight all attempts to make English the official language of the US govt. As a result, when you vote ballots must be in multiple languages. Govt documents must be printed in multiple languages. Besides the increased expensed it is insulting that illegals have inter jected themselves into American poltics. Did you know the illegals have successfully lobbied to be allowed to vote in CITY elections in many US cities.


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"American culture" is a nebulous, constantly changing thing. I'm sorry you don't like brown people, or people who speak different languages from you. Also, how does seeing documents in multiple languages hurt you? Why is it so damn important to have an "official language" anyway?

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If the illegals just worked, obey the law, refrained from interjecting themselves into American politics, and did not abuse the welfare system......then people like me would not be so critical of them. But this is not the case....

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Except about 99% of "illegals" do work, obey the law, and refrain from interjecting themselves into American politics. The only difference between you and David Duke is the level to which you try to cover up your odious racism.

[irvman21]

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Perhaps if anyone who wanted to emigrate to the US were allowed in (without, you know, fear of being thrown out for having been arbitrarily labeled "illegal"), they wouldn't be so reticent to get auto insurance? It's obvious that making immigration illegal caused this problem in the first place.


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Why should the citizens of the United States allow anyone who wants to come here the ability to do so?

[kurto]

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Cardcounter, please knock it off calling for Felix to be banned. If he says something offensive, use the notify moderator button: its more effective and we can skip the drama. And then after Ryan Beal confirms its OK, kindly STFU. I for one do not believe Felix has done anything wrong here.

Edit: Actually, pretty much everything Felix has said here was wrong, just not bannable.

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What constitutes offensive? I've never seen someone makeup so many arbitrary statitistics as that guy. Honestly, you almost have to conclude that he just makes stuff up to try to get a rise out of people. I have to believe he's a troll and flaming because clearly he can't believe what he writes when he's just making up numbers.

[Superfluous Man]

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Why should the citizens of the United States allow anyone who wants to come here the ability to do so?

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Because freedom to move on public property (and, yes, across the border into the United States) is a fundamental human right that cannot be taken away by a simple majority vote.

Why should someone born on the opposite side of an arbitrary line be prevented from living where they choose, even if it is across said border?

[irvman21]

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Why should the citizens of the United States allow anyone who wants to come here the ability to do so?

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Because freedom to move on public property (and, yes, across the border into the United States) is a fundamental human right that cannot be taken away by a simple majority vote.

Why should someone born on the opposite side of an arbitrary line be prevented from living where they choose, even if it is across said border?

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I should never have asked. Your response makes it clear that there is no point to us having this discussion. I respect your opinion and right to express it, but I cannot begin to explain how ridiculous I find it.

As a side note, if it were 11 million uneducated, unskilled, poor, english speaking white people, I would still feel the same way. It's not about race for most people.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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Last I heard you're pulling numbers out of your ass to support your obviously racist theory that people with too much melanin are criminals. Here is a fact: As of 2005, "Overall, 6.4% of State and Federal inmates at midyear 2005 were not U.S. citizens." That is taken from the Department of Justice.

So, even if ALL of the noncitizens in jail were "illegals," it doesn't even amount to more than six and a half percent. A far cry from your 25% number.

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Very good. I stand corrected.
Let me compliment you that you actually back up your assertions with FACTS. This puts you in the top 1% of 2+2 posters. Since the US population is about 300 million then we could conclude that 19.2 million people of the USA are here illegally (.064 x 300m). Also keep in mind that many illegals that commit minor crimes are flown at tax payer expense back to their home countries and therefore are not in US prisons. KURTO/CARDCOUNTER....Pay attention to this poster! This is how you present a rational argument against me....

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"American culture" is a nebulous, constantly changing thing. I'm sorry you don't like brown people, or people who speak different languages from you. Also, how does seeing documents in multiple languages hurt you? Why is it so damn important to have an "official language" anyway?

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<Sigh> After complimenting you make such a silly assertion.
First, is it possible in your view to want to enforce immigrations laws without being accused of not liking "brown people"?
Second, the history of the world shows that language is the glue that holds people togther. Countries that do not have a common language are more likely to disintergrate into chaos and civil war.... The term is Balkanization.

[Copernicus]

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*Deleted*

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dont like the law? get it changed.

Racist? typical inability to argue a position without baseless attacks. ...something this forum is not supposed to tolerate.

But to respond to your slur, my son is Latin American, and I am the last person who would be racist against them.

[Superfluous Man]

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Why should the citizens of the United States allow anyone who wants to come here the ability to do so?

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Because freedom to move on public property (and, yes, across the border into the United States) is a fundamental human right that cannot be taken away by a simple majority vote.

Why should someone born on the opposite side of an arbitrary line be prevented from living where they choose, even if it is across said border?

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I should never have asked. Your response makes it clear that there is no point to us having this discussion. I respect your opinion and right to express it, but I cannot begin to explain how ridiculous I find it.

As a side note, if it were 11 million uneducated, unskilled, poor, english speaking white people, I would still feel the same way. It's not about race for most people.

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You may feel the same way if they were uneducated, unskilled, poor, english speaking white people, but I doubt Felix does, as he's willing to make up statistics to support his "brown people are criminals" theory.

But the bottom line is that those 11 million uneducated, unskilled, poor people are 1) the lynchpin of the US economy that allow you (presumably an educated, skilled person) to enjoy many things you may take for granted -and- 2) in many cases have improved their own lives by entering the U.S.; even at sub-minimum-wage, America is still the land of opportunity for those willing to chase it.

[DVaut1]

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What constitutes offensive? I've never seen someone makeup so many arbitrary statitistics as that guy. Honestly, you almost have to conclude that he just makes stuff up to try to get a rise out of people. I have to believe he's a troll and flaming because clearly he can't believe what he writes when he's just making up numbers.

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Some people are just uber-confident in their estimations and steadfastly defend what are at best abitrarily formed opinions. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] At least give him credit for admitting he just makes up statistics, then forms policy wishes from those made up statistics.

However, I'm inclined to believe he sincerely believes everything he says, despite the fact that he admits he doesn't have any empirical evidence to support his conclusions, and isn't trolling -- although I admit to having no idea what 'trolling' exactly is.

I think it would be an especially egregious error if he were banned, despite the fact I think he's very wrong.