On the subject of colluders in online o8 games

[wiseheart]

So, Ive played approximately 500,000+ hands on Pokerstars (possibly more, but last time I actually got the official # from them it was a bit below 500k) and I have only now received my first email from Pokerstars which says I was a victim of colluders and received a (measly) credit.

Now, I have never taken the time to scrutinize sufficiently whether or not my opponents were colluding. I have been at tables where it seemed that way and expressed verbally that I would contact Support and once about 1 year ago I actually asked support to look into two people, but they found nothing.

Anyways, is this a sign that colluding on Pokerstars is fairly rare, or is it just fairly rarely reported? What are your opinions?

[Buzz]

Wiseheart - How would you catch two players who played in the same game from their own homes and who simply communicated their cards to each other, say by CB or ham radio, and perhaps in code?

Buzz

[wiseheart]

Buzz,

If we are still talking online poker you would catch them by observing their betting/folding patterns relative to each other.

The main problem is, it is easy to see when high level players are colluding cause there are many eyes always watching (for instance the accusation by grimmstar day before yesterday in BBV that two players were softplaying at the 25/50 nlhe game gathered a lot of attention) Yet at the lower levels, the only people watching are usually the players themselves. In that case, it is up to the player to look for suspicious behavior and report it.

For instance, I thought it suspicious and annoying that a player kept folding their SB in a SnG to a BB that had hardly any chips, yet they would always push when I was BB.
By itself this is not too unusual, but when that player is always folding to the same person's BB in many SnGs then there is reason to believe something funny might be going on. Then you compare all the hands they have played to determine if that is true.

IMHO. (Buzz that means In my honest opinion)

[RobNottsUk]

The anti-collusion algorithms look for suspicious betting patterns. So, if one of those players were involved in pots with trash, when the other had a lock, and was raising, it attracts attention.

If they're just passively sharing info and sutbtely adjusting the odds, then the extra 4 seen cards, will only be a very slight long run benefit for marginal decisions, not really worth the trouble may be?

[bbartlog]

the extra 4 seen cards, will only be a very slight long run benefit

I think four extra cards seen would be a big edge. In many cases it would allow you to bluff or bluffcatch with great confidence. Often you could narrow your estimate of opponent holdings substantially based on the extra four cards as well.

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]


IMHO. (Buzz that means In my humble opinion)

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[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
the extra 4 seen cards, will only be a very slight long run benefit

I think four extra cards seen would be a big edge. In many cases it would allow you to bluff or bluffcatch with great confidence. Often you could narrow your estimate of opponent holdings substantially based on the extra four cards as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I read the original post last night that was the first thing that came to mind. You would not need to use betting patterns to collude you could simply use extra card information.

I did some twodimes tests on hands and you can certainly swing small dogs like 48% into small favorites like 52% by knowing 4 dead cards. I don't even want to know the effects of knowing 8 dead cards.


Of course this could explain why some players who seemingly get their money in bad all the time are winners - and all anyone can do is blame it on running hot.

[fishyak]

This is why I will not play online for real $. It's just too easy to collude.

[macawboy]

About a month a go i notified poker stars about 2 players playing in the same Sit& Go tournaments (PLO8)on a regular basis and asked them to investigate.
I found them by accident. Sharkscopeing the game i was in i noticed two players with a ROI of over 20%. Being curious i checked out their previous results and guess what,they had played in the same last eight Sit& n Goes with exactly the same entry time to the tournaments.
Today i got an email ;
PokerStars has become aware of two players who were working together in our Sit
& Go tournaments to the detriment of other players. You were involved in at
least one tournament with these players and as a result you may have been
adversely affected.

Got a small credit to my account.

I am not bothered about the compensation i am just gratefull to Stars for looking into the matter and taking action.

[niss]

Is there a reason to keep their names a secret?