On the subject of colluders in online o8 games

[wiseheart]

Yeah and I played 254 of those games in the last 6 months (down from abou 1000 I played in the 6 months prior) and my ROI went from 21% down to 8% at those games. Hmm...coincidence? Gee $19 credit though, that makes it all better.

[BradleyT]

Hmm is it just a coincidence that angryfish hasn't played since this thread was made?

[macawboy]

Angry Fish was not one of the two i reported.

[RobNottsUk]

[ QUOTE ]
Both the players i reported had played 1,084 games between them one had a ROI of 23% and one had a ROI of 25% both were banned and had their money withdrawn and split between players that they may have colluded against.

[/ QUOTE ]
As a matter of interest, how did you notice this with Sharkscope? Was it following their latest games and noticing that they played together whole time?

[macawboy]

I subscribe to sharksope so i get 155 searches per day .I scoped all the players in my game and noticed 2 players both with ROI,s over 20%.
Out of curiosity i clicked on their names and then on their recent results,this gives you their last eight games played. They had played in the last eight games together at two different levels and both had entered the games at the same time.
No brainer..

[Lucky Clubs]

[ QUOTE ]
I subscribe to sharksope so i get 155 searches per day .I scoped all the players in my game and noticed 2 players both with ROI,s over 20%.
Out of curiosity i clicked on their names and then on their recent results,this gives you their last eight games played. They had played in the last eight games together at two different levels and both had entered the games at the same time.
No brainer..

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate on how this amounts to collusion? I am at 19% and 23% in ROI on the two sites I use, and on each site I am usually in with 3 or 4 of the same players. I watch the O8 SNGs and often enter as soon as I see that at least one other player has signed up. Often, this is the same player on both sites. He happens to have an ROI around 27% on each site. Collusion?

[bbartlog]

just a coincidence that angryfish

AngryFish doesn't have an ROI that high, though he is a solid winning player at the limits he plays (11% ROI).

[bbartlog]

Can you elaborate on how this amounts to collusion

It doesn't amount to collusion, it just provides probable cause for further investigation. Obviously there are going to be times when two people play together in the same SNGs one after another - I've played some fairly big sets where some other player (ronpraha, UroBean, AngryFish, not2ez4me, or one of several others) was in all my games, just because we were both multitabling PLO8 SNGs at the same time. In lower limit NLHE this sort of thing would actually be more suspicious because the game volume is such that you could hardly end up playing in the same game as someone else eight times in a row (unless you were trying), but if you're playing the PLO8 turbos on Stars at the mid-limits (like $32+3) you can easily play every one that goes, which means you'll see a lot of the same faces.

[macawboy]

The last eight games they played together were over two seperate days different times of day mostly at PLO8 ($6.5 and $16} levels with a couple of nl holdem sit & goes thrown in .
Come on you dont have to be a brain surgeon to suspect collusion.

[bbartlog]

mostly at PLO8 ($6.5 and $16)

You have to wonder why they bothered. If I were going to go to the trouble of colluding I'd at least try to make the extra return worth my while. If you assume they gained an extra 10% ROI (each) from their cheating, you're looking at a buck or two an hour. Further I would expect that collusion and multitabling don't go together well (too hard to keep track of what goes with what), so multitabling would actually be a better way to increase profits assuming you had a decent edge to begin with.