Pregnant GF

[gumpzilla]

I'm curious how people would feel in the opposite situation, where an abortion had been agreed upon beforehand, but when the pregnancy occurred, the guy changes his mind and thinks the woman should keep it. Should her hand be forced now? Or does she still get to make the choice?

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
A) Stay and change my entire life, and hate myself for giving everything up for something I didnt want in the first place.
B) Run away and hate myself for being a coward the rest of my life

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C)

[tuq]

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[ QUOTE ]
A) Stay and change my entire life, and hate myself for giving everything up for something I didnt want in the first place.
B) Run away and hate myself for being a coward the rest of my life

[/ QUOTE ]


C)




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He could run. BUT HE COULDN'T OUTRUN THE LAW!!!

[gumpzilla]

Here's another question:

What would people say the difference is between saying to the guy "If you're not prepared for the woman to go back on what she said she would do in this circumstance and man up anyway, you shouldn't be having sex" vs. saying to the girl "If you're not prepared for the man to bail out when you change your mind about getting an abortion, you shouldn't be having sex?" Anybody here likely to say the latter to the girl?

[StevieG]

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HolyFimFed is looking for advice and counseling, not sympathy.

A reply that literally says "that's life" is not realistic and to the point, it is banal and defeatist. And it is not what I would expect from a good parent.

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I'm intriuged by your perspective here. I don't see anything banal about the post you're discussing. I read it as a call to accept responsibility and learn a little about the effects of a decision to abort. You may think that's trite, but I don't see it. It's anything but unrealistic, and very much what a good parent might say.

Add to that the "defeatist" description you spin in and I'm forced to conclude that you feel that the OP is somehow "defeated" if he accepts his responsibility. I find that intriguing when it comes from a new dad like you (which I get from your blog). Don't you like parenthood?

[/ QUOTE ]

QL,

I think the difference might be in how I view the original post.

Parenthood is fantastic. I have found it rewarding on multiple levels. It's also a heavy responsibility and one I believe HolyFimFed takes pretty seriously. He would not be so concerned about the environment he's living in and his ability to provide if he didn't. Seems to me that he'll make a great father, but doesn't think he's ready.

In that original post, a 22 year old opens up completely, explains his situation, admits confusion and asks for advice.

In reply, the post we're discussing. It starts with sarcasm, continues with a derisive comment, then labels his feelings in the matter as naive, and his response cruel. It concludes "this isn't the map you've laid out for yourself, these are the cards you've been dealt. That's life."

I do not consider HolyFimFed defeated should he become a father and take responsibility, but I consider that conclusion defeatist. It is resigned to an unwanted outcome, and is bereft of a positive message.

There is also evidence of not having read the post carefully. By that, I refer to the statement on how abortion might impact his girlfriend. You saw it as a call to learn a little about the effects of a decision to abort. Out of context, I might agree. But in the original post, HolyFimFed acknowledges an abortion would likely lead to depression and resentment toward him since he is arguing for an abortion.

So we have sarcasm, derision, a lack of any advice, and evidence of not paying attention.

This is supposed to be what a good parent would offer in response?

I'd like to think a good parent would read carefully, assuage the clear anxiety, and offer some meaningful advice.

Which is exactly what entertainme does in a later post.

I can only reach the conclusion that the first response was not to the original post in particular, but the sentiment of many who posted in the thread to that point that the OP needed to run from the problem.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's another question:

What would people say the difference is between saying to the guy "If you're not prepared for the woman to go back on what she said she would do in this circumstance and man up anyway, you shouldn't be having sex" vs. saying to the girl "If you're not prepared for the man to bail out when you change your mind about getting an abortion, you shouldn't be having sex?" Anybody here likely to say the latter to the girl?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Only certain amounts of truth and honesty are socially acceptable at this time.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HolyFimFed is looking for advice and counseling, not sympathy.

A reply that literally says "that's life" is not realistic and to the point, it is banal and defeatist. And it is not what I would expect from a good parent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm intriuged by your perspective here. I don't see anything banal about the post you're discussing. I read it as a call to accept responsibility and learn a little about the effects of a decision to abort. You may think that's trite, but I don't see it. It's anything but unrealistic, and very much what a good parent might say.

Add to that the "defeatist" description you spin in and I'm forced to conclude that you feel that the OP is somehow "defeated" if he accepts his responsibility. I find that intriguing when it comes from a new dad like you (which I get from your blog). Don't you like parenthood?

[/ QUOTE ]

QL,

I think the difference might be in how I view the original post.

Parenthood is fantastic. I have found it rewarding on multiple levels. It's also a heavy responsibility and one I believe HolyFimFed takes pretty seriously. He would not be so concerned about the environment he's living in and his ability to provide if he didn't. Seems to me that he'll make a great father, but doesn't think he's ready.

In that original post, a 22 year old opens up completely, explains his situation, admits confusion and asks for advice.

In reply, the post we're discussing. It starts with sarcasm, continues with a derisive comment, then labels his feelings in the matter as naive, and his response cruel. It concludes "this isn't the map you've laid out for yourself, these are the cards you've been dealt. That's life."

I do not consider HolyFimFed defeated should he become a father and take responsibility, but I consider that conclusion defeatist. It is resigned to an unwanted outcome, and is bereft of a positive message.

There is also evidence of not having read the post carefully. By that, I refer to the statement on how abortion might impact his girlfriend. You saw it as a call to learn a little about the effects of a decision to abort. Out of context, I might agree. But in the original post, HolyFimFed acknowledges an abortion would likely lead to depression and resentment toward him since he is arguing for an abortion.

So we have sarcasm, derision, a lack of any advice, and evidence of not paying attention.

This is supposed to be what a good parent would offer in response?

I'd like to think a good parent would read carefully, assuage the clear anxiety, and offer some meaningful advice.

Which is exactly what entertainme does in a later post.

I can only reach the conclusion that the first response was not to the original post in particular, but the sentiment of many who posted in the thread to that point that the OP needed to run from the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent post. I especially agree that being a good father does not mean just having a baby any ole time under any ole circumstances and saying it's all for the best for father, mother, or child.

Good parenthood begins long before birth. It includes preparing a stable home and likely stable future for the child. I'd go so far as to include careful consideration as to whether the child would be able to live at least as well as the parents. This does not at all seem to be a given these days, and my feeling is a parent owes his child at least what he has given himself or what life has made available to him. I don't believe in a downward spiral for one's progeny.

None of this fits at all into the idea of just popping them out and saying it's for the best, it's wonderful, or it's anything like loving, holy, realistic, evolved, or in any way mature.

I think until you stop asking what your prospects are and instead ask what the child's will be, and are willing to make them your first priority and order your life accordingly, you have no business parenting. Kids are not toys, rewards, social validation, or ways to hold failing relationships together. People with childish mentalities should not be having children themselves.

Admitting one's shortcomings in this regard should not be grounds for scorn. It's actually a sign that the things that should be considered and very often aren't considered are actually coming into play. That kind of honest self-assessment is always valuable, rarer than it should be, and especially appropriate given the lifelong gravity of the decisions to be made when it comes to childbirth.

[QuickLearner]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[HolyFimFed is looking for advice and counseling, not sympathy.

A reply that literally says "that's life" is not realistic and to the point, it is banal and defeatist. And it is not what I would expect from a good parent.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm intriuged by your perspective here. I don't see anything banal about the post you're discussing. I read it as a call to accept responsibility and learn a little about the effects of a decision to abort. You may think that's trite, but I don't see it. It's anything but unrealistic, and very much what a good parent might say.

Add to that the "defeatist" description you spin in and I'm forced to conclude that you feel that the OP is somehow "defeated" if he accepts his responsibility. I find that intriguing when it comes from a new dad like you (which I get from your blog). Don't you like parenthood?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are begging the question. It is not true that there is only one way out, for either party.

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I don't think I am. I am not arguing that there is only one way out; I disagree with his assessment of the post in question as banal and defeatist.

[DavidC]

Congradulations in advance on being a stay at home dad with a nurse as a wife.

It won't be half as bad as you think.

[DavidC]

If you leave, take her with you.

If she has a kid, leaving her won't free you from the responsibility of that child.