Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[andyfox]

My reading of the history of the issue is that the Zionists are the bad guys and the Palestinians are the bad guys. Abba Eban's joke that the Palestinians never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity seems correct. But the Zionists always treated the natives like sh*t, from the very beginning. Achad Ha'am, a hundred years ago, accurately predicted what the result of such treatment would be. Most of the tactics of Middle East terrorism were introduced into the arena by the Zionists in the 1930s.

In my mind, though, all of this is ancient history. It will take statesmanship and courage to try to move beyond the damage that has been done. Attitudes like the OP's are what keep that from occurring. I note that thousands of Israelis demonstrated on the day of the meeting at Annapolis, chanting "death to the Arabs." An attitude that we're the good guys and they're the bad guys is guaranteed to lead to oblivion.

[Goater]

I understand your position and agree that attitudes like the OP dont help. One thing though - its true that a few thousand Israelis protested the meetings (I havnt heard the chants "death to the arabs"). They are not the majority. Its my opinion that they would not represent an obstacle to an agreement between the two sides as the majority of Israelis wish to see a peace process. I dont think this is the case on the Palestinian side. Hamas and its supporters, of course, wont even discuss a peace deal. In classic Hamas style, today they even demanded that the UN rescind the 1947 partition decision! A huge proportion of differing Palestinian groups, due in large part to the education and indoctrination, wont even recognise Israel inside the 1967 borders, demand the majority of Jerusalem if any deal is made and, most importantly demand the right of return - something that Israel could never allow under any circumstances. These are bigger problems than the Israeli opposition to the meetings.

I am for a Palestinian state but against the meetings at the moment. As I stated earlier, anyone who thinks that any progress will be made with the weakest Israeli Prime Minister ever, the weakest Palestinian leader ever and the most unpopular US President ever is dreaming. They are all doing this for their own personal reasons. I think that someone can support the 2 state solution in principle and be against the curent farce and thats the position of quite a few Israelis.

If no harm could come of this then Id say go for it - why not. But as we have seen in the past, every time something like this happens the resulting violence is catastrophic. This is not the time for peace processes involving these individuals.

[SNOWBALL]

Honestly, I find Felix's posts on Israel more refreshing than anything else. He's like a humorless version of Borat that goes seemingly too far, and yet others are still willing to follow him, and it quickly becomes clear that the shy and dishonest Zionists who once spoke of "peace" and "even handedness" are cheering him on, and crying for blood.
The secret to a successful demagogue is bringing hatred onto the surface of things, not in creating new hatred.

Sadly for you Felix, people like you will always lose in the long run. You're bound to. It's an absolute matter of survival for the jews that you lose. That's why the former head of Shin Bet and an ardent Zionest Ami Ayalon, who doesn't care at all for palestinian rights, calls for a complete unilateral withdrawal from all palestinian land: because the only other option is an expansive vortex of murder.

[theblitz]

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a complete unilateral withdrawal from all palestinian land: because the only other option is an expansive vortex of murder.

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and unilateral withdraw in the past has proved to be the correct path to peace. That is assuming you ignore Oslo, Gaza and Lebanon which don't count.
Oops, small problem here. Those are the ONLY examples and they have proved to be great haven't they.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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Sadly for you Felix, people like you will always lose in the long run. You're bound to.

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History says otherwise....
My methodology is tried and proven. The history of mankind tells me this. Your wishful thinking is worth nothing.

[owsley]

It's just funny (and also painful in big picture way) to realize that if Felix had been born under an entirely different set of circumstances but had the same intolerant and violent beliefs he would be out in the streets with an AK 47 burning american flags and trying to see if he couldn't kill himself a settler. The people on each side who fight in and perpetuate conflicts like this and in Northern Ireland are very similar at the end of the day, they just had the direct opposite set of biases instilled in them due to chance. The more directly opposite the biases are, they more they want to make up reasons to kill each other. If Felix died tomorrow and got reincarnated as a Palestinian in the Gaza strip just think of all the crazy [censored] he would be able to justify with his "gunboat diplomacy."

Also, arguing with Felix is like the minor leagues of the politics forum. But somehow Snowball manages to bungle it with his goofy rhetoric.

[Case Closed]

felix,

Is it safe to assume that this war they will be fighting will be funded by the US?

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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Is it safe to assume that this war they will be fighting will be funded by the US?

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Well thanks to that uber-nitwit Jimmy Carter, the USA is bound by treaty to pay annual bribes to both Egypt and Israel. But it gets worse, because of that nitwit Jimmy Carter, the USA sells M1A1 tanks to Eqypt, as well as F16 and Apache helicopters. I'm sure the first thing the Gypos did was sell the military secrets of this equipment to the USSR.

But I disgress.... The amount of money the USA gives to Israel is not enough to fund a full-blown war. But in my peace plan, Israel will complete my peace plan in about 90 days so it won't cost too much in the long run.

[Kaj]

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Is it safe to assume that this war they will be fighting will be funded by the US?

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Well thanks to that uber-nitwit Jimmy Carter, the USA is bound by treaty to pay annual bribes to both Egypt and Israel. ...

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Any President can opt out of treaty at the stroke of a pen. No wait. They don't even need to use a pen.

But nice try blaming a Democrat from 28 years ago for our current foreign aid program.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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But nice try blaming a Democrat from 28 years ago for our current foreign aid program.

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Jimmy Carter is most responsible for the terrorist theocracy ruling Iran today. His undermining of the Shah was an act of gross incompetance and stupidity. The world would be a much more peaceful place if the Shah's regime was still in power keeping those religious nuts under his thumb. Instead there is a good chance a nuclear war will occur between Iran, Israel, and the USA. The muslims don't properly fear a nuclear war because they believe they will have 72 virgins waiting for them.... We have not seen the worst of Jimmy Carter's idiocy on Iran...

The Repubs deserve some responsibility for the Taliban.
But even in retrospect I think funding the Afghan insurgents was the proper play to teach those bastard Russian commies a lesson for their intervention in Vietnam. Payback is a bitch and the Russians reaped the karma they sowed. The only mistake the Repubs made was not funding the Northern Alliance to help them defeat the Taliban after the Soviets left Afghanistan. But hindsight is 20/20. No one knew the Taliban would become so troublesome to other nations outside their borders. But undermining an American ally like the Shah of iran was the epitome of stupidity....