Stars 1/2 - Several cbet hands - to cbet or not to cbet?

[Dankenstein]

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No, I'm not saying that you should usually only fire once. In the hands you posted, sure, there was only one case where I advocated firing the second bullet. That doesn't mean that there aren't many more cases where firing the second bullet is appropriate.

JSampras1, you should read the following post on firing the second barrel; it's one of the best I've ever read on the subject and I guarantee that it will illuminate the concept for you: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=8710077

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Wow, great thread. Definitely glad you posted the link !! Thank you !!

[neurotiq]

My pleasure. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Gib]

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PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero ??


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This is fine, call &amp; see what the turn brings. If he's the type to try to bluff here it may be worth heading to SD.

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PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero ???


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Check &amp; see is ur best option here.

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PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero ???


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Flop is good, pretty much a standard flop cbet here. The turn is a little different however &amp; becomes extremely player dependent. Against someone tricky or thinking player I tend to check behind &amp; often call river UI if I feel he could bluff into me. The main reason is that I feel a tricky opponent is likely to semi-bluff that turn with all draws, in fact unless he does it a lot, it would be the best play for ur opponent if u r prone to b/f. Against someone who peels very light it is prolly best to bet the turn again.

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PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls


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I like to bet here &amp; hope I can get at least 1 of them to fold, both would be best!

[Dankenstein]

What do you think is a good C-bet % ? I just got Holdem Manager and looked at my C-bet and it's WAAAY too high at 93% on the flop and 88% on the turn. I was thinking it should be probably around 80% on the flop and less on the turn. I am wondering if anyone has holdem manager what their C-bet stats are.

[kerowo]

Please post more hands in one thread so the responses can become even shorter and less informative, something like this:
#1 c
#2 c
#3 f
#4 c
#5 r
#6 c
#7 b
#8 x
#9 r
#10 killing spree
#11 c
#12 f
#13 lolf
#14 c
#15 p
#16 f
#17 f

[neurotiq]

I honestly have no idea what a good c-bet percentage would be; I would expect, however, that it would be HIGHLY dependent on what stakes you play. If you play at nano stakes where pretty much every pot is multi-way, your c-bet percentage should be MUCH lower than at a stake where a lot of hands go heads up or 3way.

This is a rather stark contrast, but it's used to illustrate a point; your c-bet % will probably deviate from stake to stake. And it should.

[gutte169]

Hand 1: Well-played. Pot is big enough to call down. He'll probably show Ax or 22-1010. There are enough Ax in his range to call down.

Hand 2: I'd probably bet this a little less than half the time. When you do bet the flop, I think you have to bet all the way since you have little showdown value (that's why I would only take that line half the time or so). You'd hate to check-check the river and someone take it down with A4. If you check, it's pretty much a white flag. Check/folding unless you improve, probably the best way to go most of the time.

Hand 3: Like above, I think you have to continue betting and fold to a C/R. He'll make it obvious if he has a jack, and he probably would've donked the flop with a Q. I think I bet it down most the time, possibly check the river against certain opponents.

Hand 4: This is well-played so far. 3-betting was the best option, and you hit a decent flop with lots of runner-runner outs and overs. You have some showdown-value, but you are out of position. The bad thing is that both of these guys are over-passive. They are definetly capable of calling down 55-1010 here which lowers your folding equity. On the flip side, they are also likely to check it down if they have Ax. Bet the flop, check a non A or K turn (since they're likely to check behind), same strategy on the river.

All-in-all, these are all more or less fine. I replied to you in the other thread, and I'll say the same here. This kind of stuff (post-flop in raised pots) is best practiced in 6-max. Take a week for only 6-max or just make a few of your tables 6-max if you multitable. It's worth it.

[Smurph64]

I hijacked hand 4 in another thread. Most people stop betting the turn. I totally disagree with that.

[Harv72b]

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I hijacked hand 4 in another thread. Most people stop betting the turn. I totally disagree with that.

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You're up against a rock who limped from EP &amp; called 2 more preflop, and a rock who raised another rock &amp; called your 3bet. Both called the flop c-bet.

What worse hands do they have? What better hands do they fold?