A big hand with a maniac and a TAG...

[britspin]

I'll be honest. By the Turn I was completely at sea. All comments appreciated.

MP2 is a 96/60 maniac over 60 hands. Preflop raise seems compulsory if no-one has raised before him. He's lost c30 bbs in the time I've been at the table.

BB seems to be a TAG or maybe a little LAG by his stats, (25/13 over 40) but I've got no read on his showdowns.

1/2 Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Hero is Button and dealt 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 9 players)
<font color="#777777">3 folds</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#777777">1 fold</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 4-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls

So, MP2's raise is compulsory, I re-raise to isolate and BB's call is an unpleasant surprise. It's also hard to read his range fromn the cold call because MP2 is very likely to re-raise, as he does.- I can't exclude a big pair, or just decent broadway cards.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12.5 SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BTN 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 4-bets</font>, BTN calls, BB calls

Did I mention MP2 has a through the roof PF AF? You're not surprised? OK, so BB is showing some strength by leading off. At this stage I'm disergarding MP2's raise, and given my low overpair, I need to raise to a) see if BB folds to two bets with OC's (he shouldn't but a lot do.) b) see if he raises me which would indicate the flush or over pair. Naturally he cold calls, and the Maniac caps.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (12.2 BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BTN 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 4-bets</font>, BTN calls, BB calls

What, so now BB decides to lead again? OK. I can't see how that 5 improves any hand range I can put BB on. I still have no clue if he's on OCs or a pair. This raggy flop is making MP2 seem more dangerous, but I can't assume he's got a 9 or 78, because he crazeee. So I raise again, to see how BB reacts. He calls again. Mp2 takes the chance to cap, and we all call. By now I'm worried that MP2 really does have a 9 or 78 or that BB is using me to get some extra bets for his monster hand.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (24.2 BB, 3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, BTN checks

The 7 means I'm now beaten by an an 8, a 9, JJ, QQ, KK AA, 66, 55, 77. Suddenly they decide to check. I check,not out of any rationale about only better hands calling me, or because I want to avoid the three bet, but because it's the quickest way to end the horror.

So- I'm open for critique on every aspect of my play in this hand.

Was I too aggro on early streets? How should I have handled BBs strange line and MP2's mania? Should I have grown a pair on the river?

[LateFlag]

Preflop and flop are standard, given the maniac.

The turn is a little spewy IMO. BB is not folding a better hand, and the maniac's cap doesn't tell you anything interesting besides that he's a maniac and even maniacs sometimes get dealt AA.

I check down the river too. At this level, lots of villains will get scared because of the four-straight flop on a multiway hand even with hands that beat you. My response on this street is biased at least a little by the fact that I don't think you were ahead on the turn.

[britspin]

Would you advocate a call on the Turn, or a fold? My issue with just calling was that if I called, BB could easily raise, even with OCs, and I'd be faced with calling 2 bets not knowing where I was.

Hmm. but I guess I ended up doing that anyway, so maybe the chance to see a cheaper river should have been taken.

[knockonwood]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you advocate a call on the Turn, or a fold? My issue with just calling was that if I called, BB could easily raise, even with OCs, and I'd be faced with calling 2 bets not knowing where I was.

Hmm. but I guess I ended up doing that anyway, so maybe the chance to see a cheaper river should have been taken.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the turn 3bet is a bit spewy. Just call down.

BB is inlikely to be raising OC's and 'raising for info' on the turn is even worse than raising for info on the flop.

Dunno, if this being nittish, but i would check behind the river also given the action.

[Smurph64]

Without redraws you have to call down at the most, no one is folding. I would only raise and cap with a AA/KK or better.

There is a small chance you win the hand, but with BB calling 3 preflop and donking, he likely has pocket's, though probably at best QQ.

I would have called two on the flop once, if it got back to me again for two on the flop I would fold.

[tiltaholic]

hmm. bet the river. yhig.
flop and turn are good too imo

[britspin]

tilt, why do you think so?

I'm half persuaded that my turn play was spewage and I should have just called MP2's raise. If BB raised again, and MPs capped, i'd be pretty sure BB had AA-JJ and could fold with a clear conscience. If BB just called MP2's raise, I'd be looking at Flush draw most likely, or Big OCs. In any case, i'd be more likely to act appropriately....

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
tilt, why do you think so?

I'm half persuaded that my turn play was spewage and I should have just called MP2's raise. If BB raised again, and MPs capped, i'd be pretty sure BB had AA-JJ and could fold with a clear conscience. If BB just called MP2's raise, I'd be looking at Flush draw most likely, or Big OCs. In any case, i'd be more likely to act appropriately....

[/ QUOTE ]

the maniacs hand is anything.
if bb is a tag, is range is expanded by the presence of the maniac. if bb is a lag, well, then he's a lag. he's also been passive, which can very well mean overcards on this flop, esp. big diamonds.

perhaps you went one raise too many on the turn, but it's not a huge mistake given your reads.

[neurotiq]

The turn is kinda meh. We just capped the flop and our LAGTAGgy BB friend is still betting the turn. Even if the maniac is going crazy with some strange holding, BB seems happy with his or her hand.