I DESERVE RESPECT

[centris]

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I do understand your points, but putting money in the stock market is the +EV move, not a savings account.

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EV stands for expected value. +EV means a decision or activity has positive expected value. Putting money in a savings account is definately +EV. You put money in and then whenever you want to take it out there will be more money there, how can that not be a "+EV move?"

The way you say this it sounds like there is only one +EV move. that is not the case there could be any number of +EV and -EV moves. Putting money in a savings account is definately one of the +EV moves. Putting money in the stock market, it is not clear if that is a +EV move for you.

[Phone Booth]

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I'm a top programmer but am not going to get into a big pissing match about it here.

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Programming is like stock-picking in that most people who do it seem to think they are much better than other people at it. I suppose it's because most people are extremely bad at it and even people who are good at it often write horrible code, so it's easy for one programmer to say, well, look at this code that someone else wrote, I can do much better. Thus comparing their potential upside with someone else's actual output, which is a fallacy. Since I'm genuinely interested on the topic of self-assessment, I'm curious - what makes you think you're a top programmer? Top programmers tend to think on a completely different level about programming than mediocre ones. They also tend to be extremely, extremely smart.

But maybe I'm wrong and you're a gifted programmer; in which case you should PM me since I need help in implementing a numerical analysis/spreadsheet package (and by that I don't mean something based on Excel or Matlab or anything, but something that would be a replacement). You wouldn't believe the upside should this be successful and it doesn't look like you're getting paid much now anyway.

Also, I posted a link to an article earlier about how incompetence leads to inflated self-assessment - did you by have a chance to read it? If you didn't, I would recommend that you do. Anecdotally, it appears to me that most people are extremely good at ignoring evidence that contradicts their self-image.

[SlowHabit]

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I'm a top programmer but am not going to get into a big pissing match about it here.

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Programming is like stock-picking in that most people who do it seem to think they are much better than other people at it. I suppose it's because most people are extremely bad at it and even people who are good at it often write horrible code, so it's easy for one programmer to say, well, look at this code that someone else wrote, I can do much better. Thus comparing their potential upside with someone else's actual output, which is a fallacy. Since I'm genuinely interested on the topic of self-assessment, I'm curious - what makes you think you're a top programmer? Top programmers tend to think on a completely different level about programming than mediocre ones. They also tend to be extremely, extremely smart.

But maybe I'm wrong and you're a gifted programmer; in which case you should PM me since I need help in implementing a numerical analysis/spreadsheet package (and by that I don't mean something based on Excel or Matlab or anything, but something that would be a replacement). You wouldn't believe the upside should this be successful and it doesn't look like you're getting paid much now anyway.

Also, I posted a link to an article earlier about how incompetence leads to inflated self-assessment - did you by have a chance to read it? If you didn't, I would recommend that you do. Anecdotally, it appears to me that most people are extremely good at ignoring evidence that contradicts their self-image.

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So true.

PS. My major was Computer Science and I was probably worse at it than Shoe at picking stocks.

[Shoe]

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Thanks Henry. I'll try to answer your questions.

1. Just about eery credit card will offer you a 0% balance transfer or convenience checks with a 0% rate. You either write the checks out to yourself, or transfer the balance to another card where you do not have a balance, and then request a refund for your "overpayment"

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So basically you are playing a shell game with credit cards. You'll constantly need to apply for new cards to keep this up. I can't see how this would get you more then $10k at the upper max $15k. I hardly see how that would be worth it.

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I would highly suggest getting a credit card, if for nothing else, to build your credit score. You don't need to put much on it, just put around $50 a month of your regular purchases on it and pay it off in full every month. You'll need a credit history to qualify for a mortgage.

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Please don't give me financial advise. I drive a $90k car. You are kiting money off credit cards.

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I also don't see how salary has anything to do with stock picking ability or this thread, other than people's general curiosity.

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It doesn't. I'm just trying to figure out why you are not investing now and why you need to kite money off credit cards and borrow from prosper.com.

Someone with a well paying job should have sufficient disposable income and credit to do this without getting into these quasi-legal credit situations.

There is also the question that if you are delusional about your job then it increases the possibility that you are also delusional about your investments.

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First everything I am doing is perfectly legal and the credit card companies know about it and don't have a problem with it. Borrowing money from prosper is not kiting, it is taking out a loan. Also, you don't need to constantly apply for new cards. Yes, you are going to end up with a lot of cards, but as you move balance from one account ot another, suddenly your old account start sending you balance offers again. If you don't have any good offers from an existing card, then yes, you'd probably have to open a new one. As a general rule of thumb, the free offers don't start coming in until you reach your annual salary. I'm close to that point and am still getting offers every other day in the mail. I don't plan to take out any more loans for the time being because I want to leave a little bit of breathing room so I will still be able to get approved for more 0% offers when my promotional periods start ending next spring/summer.

If you don't have a single credit card, you probably don't have a very high credit score. Getting a credit card costs you nothing, and if you pay your balance every month will not cost you anything either. If you get a good card you can even earn lots of rewards for absolutely free. And you drive a 90k car? I would think you should know that, but from the sounds of it, you might have a lot of money, but you don't know much about managing it. I'm assuming you are just planning to buy your house for cash, otherwise good luck if you have never had a line of credit in your life.

I'd be able to pay back all of my loans over time even if all my stocks went bankrupt. Even though that would indeed suck.

I thought you were fairly smart until your last post. Now i'm not so sure.

It is also much more likely that I am a computer programmer than you drive a $90k car.

And I've posted my investments (what i picked, how i picked them to perform, and on what date -- you can determine if i'm right or wrong based on that). So you may think i'm delusional, but i'm not delusional about my investments. You can go back and search and see how each pick would have performed. I think you will find i'm off to a great start on building an extremely good track record.

[Shoe]

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Since I'm genuinely interested on the topic of self-assessment, I'm curious - what makes you think you're a top programmer?

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Obviously, my opinion could very well be higher of myself than it actually is. Sorry, I did not read the article you posted -- but will make sure I do that tomorrow (i'm just on my way out of town).

My opinion is backed up by performance reviews -- I have always received the top rating in my reviews. I also have very few defects in my code compared to other programmers. All the testers are thrilled when they are assigned to one of my projects, because they know they are going to get to test some well-written code, that I also provide good documentation to them on. Maybe I'm not as good as I think I am, but I doubt the feedback I receive would be as good as it is with out being atleast above average.

That's all I have time for right now folks, hope you all have a good weekend.

[Shoe]

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Shoe, what are your thoughts on Autodesk (ADSK)?

I'm thinking of picking some up, what do you think?

Depending on your input, I may stop making fun of you. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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Your inbox is full.

[Henry17]

I didn't say borrowing from Prosper was kiting. I said transferring money between cards was kiting. It isn't technically but close enough that I'd be embarrassed.

[jumbojacks]

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Since I'm genuinely interested on the topic of self-assessment, I'm curious - what makes you think you're a top programmer?

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Obviously, my opinion could very well be higher of myself than it actually is. Sorry, I did not read the article you posted -- but will make sure I do that tomorrow (i'm just on my way out of town).

My opinion is backed up by performance reviews -- I have always received the top rating in my reviews. I also have very few defects in my code compared to other programmers. All the testers are thrilled when they are assigned to one of my projects, because they know they are going to get to test some well-written code, that I also provide good documentation to them on. Maybe I'm not as good as I think I am, but I doubt the feedback I receive would be as good as it is with out being atleast above average.

That's all I have time for right now folks, hope you all have a good weekend.

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That doesn't really say much as to whether you're a good programmer. You could be just careful and clean in your presentation. While those skills are very important to have, it's not necessarily the defining feature of a great programmer.

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Top programmers tend to think on a completely different level about programming than mediocre ones. They also tend to be extremely, extremely smart.

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This is SO VERY true. They're the ones who, when given a spec, aren't implementing it in the most obvious, naive design. Their code might usually look very obscure because they usually can break down these problems to its most fundamental design and optimize the hell out those systems. Some of the geniuses in my department will submit code that I can't read/understand because I'm too dumb.

[jws43yale]

I am very confused, if Shoe is a top computer programmer why did he need a $10k loan from prosper to start investing. He said this is the first time in his life he has had money to invest, but I would imagine that a good 28 year old computer programmer hasn't been living paycheck to paycheck since graduating.

[Henry17]

He is 28? lol. I figured maybe he was just out of school.