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#582
10-06-2007, 09:49 AM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] kyleb you completely ignore bullpen. [/ QUOTE ] As most people should. Bullpens are worth very little unless they are lights-out, which admittedly the Indians' is. Then again, the Indians ruin it by having a dedicated closer in Borowski, who has been terrible, so you don't get a lot of points there. Remember that the Red Sox have a shutdown bullpen and the Yankees have a decent one. [/ QUOTE ] You can't put Joba in the Rotation AND claim that the Yankees have a decent pen. Even with Joba in the pen the difference between the Yankees and tribe pens is significant. 
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#583
10-06-2007, 10:06 AM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] kyleb you completely ignore bullpen. [/ QUOTE ] As most people should. Bullpens are worth very little unless they are lights-out, which admittedly the Indians' is. Then again, the Indians ruin it by having a dedicated closer in Borowski, who has been terrible, so you don't get a lot of points there. Remember that the Red Sox have a shutdown bullpen and the Yankees have a decent one. [/ QUOTE ] You can't put Joba in the Rotation AND claim that the Yankees have a decent pen. Even with Joba in the pen the difference between the Yankees and tribe pens is significant. [/ QUOTE ] kyleb's whole point is that in a 5 game series, a bullpen really isn't of huge import. if your starters can give you 7 innings, you just need 3-4 guys. so yeah, if the yankees had edwar, vizcaino, rivera, and say, uh, farnsworth - it's not *that* much worse than what the indians would be throwing out there.
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#584
10-06-2007, 10:41 AM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] kyleb you completely ignore bullpen. [/ QUOTE ] As most people should. Bullpens are worth very little unless they are lights-out, which admittedly the Indians' is. Then again, the Indians ruin it by having a dedicated closer in Borowski, who has been terrible, so you don't get a lot of points there. Remember that the Red Sox have a shutdown bullpen and the Yankees have a decent one. [/ QUOTE ] You can't put Joba in the Rotation AND claim that the Yankees have a decent pen. Even with Joba in the pen the difference between the Yankees and tribe pens is significant. [/ QUOTE ] kyleb's whole point is that in a 5 game series, a bullpen really isn't of huge import. if your starters can give you 7 innings, you just need 3-4 guys. so yeah, if the yankees had edwar, vizcaino, rivera, and say, uh, farnsworth - it's not *that* much worse than what the indians would be throwing out there. [/ QUOTE ] Actually Kyle's points were about the Yankees being the better 162 game team. With Chamberlain in the pen the Indians' pen is "somewhat" better than the Yankee, but the Rotation is now definitely in the Tribe's favor. With Chamberlain in the rotation the Rotations are close with a possible Yankees nod, but the Bullpens are now very much in the Tribe's favor. And no, the Yankees "edwar, vizcaino, rivera, and say, uh, farnsworth" is way worse that Rafael, Rafael, Lewis, Fultz and Borowski. A full year of Perez and Bentencourt pitching would be in the 150-180 inning range, that the equivalent of a starter, considering they had ~1.6 ERA combined its foolish to discount them. [ QUOTE ] kyleb's whole point is that in a 5 game series, a bullpen really isn't of huge import. [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure Kyle would disagree here as well. In a playoff series there are far more off days allowing the top performers in the pen to pitch in a far higher % of the games. Perez has already pitched in 4 of the Indians 20 innings, Bentencourt 1, Lewis 1. Raf and Raf could easily end up with 20% of the Indians' innings pitched. If Byrd starts game 4 that would be > the percentage of Innings pitched by Carmona in a 5 game series.
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#585
10-06-2007, 11:31 AM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
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[ QUOTE ] i just think we are putting too much emphasis on numbers and stats and stuff, cmon baseball is different than poker people [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I can show you some numbers that say that this is wrong.
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#586
10-06-2007, 11:45 AM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
"anytime you're trying to make statistics tell you who's gonna win the game, that's a bunch of geeks trying to play video games."
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#587
10-06-2007, 12:07 PM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
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I want to kill myself for not going to this game. But WOWOWOWOWOW, Instant Effing Classic. [/ QUOTE ] yep, best game i've ever been to, obviously...i woke up an hour or so ago, and no one was here, so i didn't realize right away that i literally have no voice. none. and didn't know it until i had to answer the phone, and nothing came out.. the walk back to the car, we were floating, hell, the whole city of cleveland was floating. everyone in pinstripes was in shock. i just honestly can't believe my luck in picking THIS game as the one playoff game i was going to go to, mostly because it was a friday.. funny thing is, i'm normally better at describing these types of scenes, and i'm still a little tongue-tied. a couple friends called last night, and i really couldn't begin to tell them how exciting everything was... for about an hour through the extra innings, all i did was chew on the towel they gave us, scream and yell, hold the towel on the top of my head and hope, chew on the towel, etc.. wow. tribe seems to be on a mission right now...rafy perez is [censored] cold-blooded..
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#589
10-06-2007, 02:46 PM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i just think we are putting too much emphasis on numbers and stats and stuff, cmon baseball is different than poker people [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I can show you some numbers that say that this is wrong. [/ QUOTE ] alright im not saying numbers dont have a lot to do with baseball, probably more than any other sport, heck i love talking about numbers, but its still a sport, and not just some gambling numbers game
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#590
10-06-2007, 02:51 PM
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Re: *** ALDS Game 2: Yankees vs. Indians (Pettite/Carmona)
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One thing that I love, though (I'm talking to you, Guy With "Pick Of Destiny" avatar), is that these are three of the four biggest SABR-focused teams in baseball (the fourth obviously being Oakland). I hate the Yankees, but I respect the way they evaluate players, and the other three teams are my three favorites. They are probably the four smartest, most successful franchises in the game, and that is because of their statistical evaluation. This game IS about numbers, and this "that's why they play the games" thing is dumb because we can freaking predict who will win all those games that end up being played on the field. It still amazes me that people scoff at sabermetrics after the prolonged success it has had, and anyone who isn't using these "new, crazy numbers" is simply not going to be as successful at predicting baseball outcomes. [/ QUOTE ] i agree that we can predict the games, i never said we couldn't, but i think playing the game is way more important, but thats pretty obvious, i really don't wanna argue that numbers aren't important, because i agree that they are, i just think sometimes people put too much into it. oh and awesome u know what movie my avatar is from [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Linear Mode
