Weather Channel Founder says"Global Warming is Biggest Scam in History

[Mark1808]

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You can insult my reasoning as much as you like but my historical facts are plentiful and accurate.



I don't know what to say to that. Facts are meaningless without applying reason. It's how you think about the facts that matters, not the facts themselves.

But you should know that. I thought you were in academia or something like that.

Also, I'm *not* trying to insult you, I'm genuinely trying to point out that your arguments in support of various spending programs rely on a fallacy. You even resort to insulting others for simply understanding that your arguments are fallacious.

A typical exchange with you:
some poster:"Spending govt money on X is a waste".
you: "Are you crazy? the government invented [fill in here] due to their research on X. Do you want to live in a world without that invention?"

"Umm.. your reasoning there is pretty weak"

"You are a fool who doesn't know the facts".

Who's doing the insulting?


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hey hey hey let's get back on topic. the argument was that the gov could throw money at solar and give the RD a kick in the a** to get it going.

people say, hey gov is no good at going concerns (businesses), which is true, but RD it does have kinda a track record, including the computer, which was developed partially by the gov. well a lot by gov at beginning.

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Government has a pretty strong track record when it comes to solar as well. Despite the billions being spent by private industry on solar panel production almost all of the major breakthroughs are occurring with government funding:

Department of Energy NREL
http://www.energy.gov/news/4503.htm
http://www.news.com/Solar-cell-break...3-6141527.html

university of deleware/darpa
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9752692-7.html

The list goes on and on.

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can't argue with that I don't think. no one is saying the gov can run a computer biz or anything, just that they throw money at something, get it started (like computer), then private industry takes over and runs with it.

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This is my general opinion. Government excels at creating competition where there is no competition. Windows of opportunity are limited to areas where high initial investments are required such as developing novel technology or investing in projects with gigantic startup costs such as nuclear.

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by computer we're talking eniac or whatever, vacuum tube dealee.

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Integrated circuits (developed by NASA) are far more advanced than vacuum tube dealees

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Despite the spending solar is still nowhere competitive to oil and it MAY NEVER BE! There may be better forms of alternative energy or oil may remain competitive for a long time. How is government best suited to decide where and how much to invest? I could throw a trillion dolars at the Iraq War, that doesn't mean we are any safer then we were before. (I happen to support the Iraq War but I have a strong suspicion that those I am debating with don't.)

[wacki]

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You can insult my reasoning as much as you like but my historical facts are plentiful and accurate.

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I don't know what to say to that. Facts are meaningless without applying reason. It's how you think about the facts that matters, not the facts themselves.

But you should know that. I thought you were in academia or something like that.

Also, I'm *not* trying to insult you, I'm genuinely trying to point out that your arguments in support of various spending programs rely on a fallacy. You even resort to insulting others for simply understanding that your arguments are fallacious.

A typical exchange with you:
some poster:"Spending govt money on X is a waste".
you: "Are you crazy? the government invented [fill in here] due to their research on X. Do you want to live in a world without that invention?"

"Umm.. your reasoning there is pretty weak"

"You are a fool who doesn't know the facts".

Who's doing the insulting?



natedogg

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I adjust my statement to read: "you can insult my opinions all you like by my facts are plentiful and accurate". Many of the anarchocapitalists and absolute free marketers on this board have a massive problem with getting historical and scientific facts right. This thread should have made that obvious. My statement was to simply declare that even though I will succinctly express my opinion I don't intend to argue the future. I will simply debate the past. Blind ideologues cannot be convinced that their position is wrong so it is pointless to even try. However, debunking their scientific and historical sources is very easy to do. Citing "tobacco-doesn't-cause-cancer" institutions, which has been done in this thread, is one such instance where the credibility of the information crosses into absurdity. That may or may not be the fault of the people falling for the fraudulent information as it seems like finding quality information in mainstream media has become increasingly difficult over the past few decades.

Basically, I'm done playing with crystal balls and just pointing out when someone becomes delusional with their historical facts.

[wacki]

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Vaccines were developed by institutions that benefited from the results.

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Just how do you think they benefited?

[AlexM]

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I said companies don't prosper by ripping people off. Money is often made ripping people off

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I think I found the source of the problem we are having here.

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The source of the problem is you think if you can find bad apples the system is flawed. I feel the system weeds out bad apples as they inevitably crop up. The only entity that continually rips people off is Government because they can use force to do it.

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Don't forget the businesses with government granted monopolies *cough Comcast*!

[adios]

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I said companies don't prosper by ripping people off. Money is often made ripping people off

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I think I found the source of the problem we are having here.

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The source of the problem is you think if you can find bad apples the system is flawed. I feel the system weeds out bad apples as they inevitably crop up. The only entity that continually rips people off is Government because they can use force to do it.

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Don't forget the businesses with government granted monopolies *cough Comcast*!

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Or electric utility companies.

[Mark1808]

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Vaccines were developed by institutions that benefited from the results.

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Just how do you think they benefited?

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More grants, more prestige, etc.

[wacki]

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Vaccines were developed by institutions that benefited from the results.

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Just how do you think they benefited?

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More grants, more prestige, etc.

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And how do you think those grants are awarded? Do you think it's a "you did good so here's money" kind of deal? Do you think it's wrong that somebody that invented what is quite possibly the most important vaccine in history would benefit from making history and improving the planet? This is a peculiar sentence from you and I'm just wondering what your point was.

[pvn]

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Government has a pretty strong track record when it comes to solar as well.

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Sure, if you are results oriented and ignore opportunity costs.

Government has a pretty strong track record when it comes to powdered breakfast drinks, too. $1,000,000,000,000.00 spent and we got Tang! We got something out of it, therefore it's unquestionably good! At least, if you like tang, that is.

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Despite the billions being spent by private industry on solar panel production almost all of the major breakthroughs are occurring with government funding:

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You can't put a price on tasty beverages!

[EvanJC]

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Weather Channel Founder calls Global Warming Biggest Scam in History

Discuss....

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John Coleman is dead wrong; Religion is the "Biggest Scam in History", Mr. Coleman needs to get his facts straight.

-Zeno

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[PLOlover]

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Back on topic. If solar can be made price competitive private industry will find a way and profit greatly if successful. If Government takes money by force from successful entrepreneurs to invest in areas it deems fit you will have a more inefficient system. You are taking money from those with a track record of success and vested interest and giving it to Government which has a poor track record of success (education, health care, poverty, crime, etc.) and no vested interest.

If this were not true then why not just give all resources to Government control? Why wouldn’t Government be better to finding solutions to all problems in society (better food production, more productive machines, better medicine, etc.)? For those who think solar needs government spending why restrict government solutions to this one area?

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well the argument is not to actually do it.

the argument is that if global warming is such a no brainer super danger, then why doesn't government do something constructive to solve the problem, rather than just b.s. us and say they're gonna have to raise taxes on us and we're going to have to learn how to make do with less in order to save the earth.

btw, something contructive could be building nuke plants rather than solar tech. and by building nukes I don't mean gov building nukes, I just mean gov rewriting regulations so that private industry can do it, cause they can do it, they have done it, and the only reason they still don't do it is basically because the gov has told them not to do it via regulations and stuff.

also solar nanotech may be like a software project where throwing more money and programmers at a project will actually slow it down, I don't know. BUT, if man made global warming is such a problem, then all these things should be being discussed and some of them should be fasttracked to be implemented.