NL Bots on Full Tilt

[Raised2Win]

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Sites this user plays on
Bodog coin flip [Verified]
FullTiltPoker full_tilting [Verified]
ParadisePoker chuckk [Verified]
PartyPoker bigfooot74 [Verified]
PokerRoom xdeal_me_inx [Verified]
PokerShare a_donation [Verified]
PokerStars chuckk [Verified]
SunPoker donationn [Verified]
UltimateBet audiodealer [Verified]

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I play FR on stars and noticed the chuckk screenname and went through my database and found some interesting stats:



only 4k hands but little weird stats.

[UATrewqaz]

Single hand histories and/or the player chatting is meaningless.

The "account" isn't a bot, the software playing on it is.

There is nothing stopping a human from using these accounts, and all evidence points to humans using them from time to time.

In fact, ensuring some minimal human play on these accounts is a great way of "covering" up the botting, aka "I saw him talk once" or "No bot would play a hand like this"

[Robby Box]

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I just thought of something.

What if it really is three/four different people who are actually playing, however all are using some sort of programming system that defines what the correct action should be. I was railing a couple tables and their insistence that someone had tought them made me think of this.

Basically it would work just like a bot, however the person still has to be there to actually press the buttons and fill in the bet amounts. Would this be considered a 'bot' still, and would it be considered against the rules? My main objection to a bot is that it can play on it's own, however I can't see how you can stop players using a set system if they want. Perhaps, if it is not a particularly advanced piece of programming, then the player might even be having to input the cards into the 'bot' and then wait for the bot to tell them the correct move which would explain the time delays?

Any thoughts on this?

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Good Point!

[pokerrn72]

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Going through old HH's with these guys. Here's some pre-flop action that seems really non-standard for a bot.

FullTiltPoker Game #1794368286: Table Cathedral Rock - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:42:49 ET - 2007/02/14
Seat 1: Bluf4fun ($282)
Seat 2: smksho ($30)
Seat 3: GALDOC ($52.95)
Seat 4: tffloors ($928.70)
Seat 5: valley2002 ($94.75)
Seat 6: Peyton88 ($339.55)
Seat 7: mariojr ($203.55)
Seat 8: Tilt88 ($220.90)
Seat 9: Hero ($206.95)
tffloors posts the small blind of $1
valley2002 has 5 seconds left to act
valley2002 is sitting out
valley2002 has timed out
Peyton88 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [4s As]
mariojr calls $2
Tilt88 folds
Hero calls $2
Bluf4fun calls $2
smksho calls $2
GALDOC has 15 seconds left to act
GALDOC raises to $30
tffloors folds
Peyton88 folds
mariojr calls $28
Hero calls $28
Bluf4fun folds
smksho adds $9.80
smksho folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 7h 8d]
mariojr bets $60
Hero folds
GALDOC calls $22.95, and is all in
mariojr shows [Ah Ac]
GALDOC shows [Ks Kd]
Uncalled bet of $37.05 returned to mariojr
*** TURN *** [7c 7h 8d] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [7c 7h 8d 8c] [Ts]
mariojr shows two pair, Aces and Eights
GALDOC shows two pair, Kings and Eights
mariojr wins the pot ($139.90) with two pair, Aces and Eights
GALDOC is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $142.90 | Rake $3
Board: [7c 7h 8d 8c Ts]
Seat 1: Bluf4fun folded before the Flop
Seat 2: smksho folded before the Flop
Seat 3: GALDOC (button) showed [Ks Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 4: tffloors (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: valley2002 is sitting out
Seat 6: Peyton88 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: mariojr showed [Ah Ac] and won ($139.90) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 8: Tilt88 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Hero folded on the Flop

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i'm not sure if this proves anything other than you do not know how to play poker

[Nichomacheo]

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I haven't read the whole thread.. but seems like it's also pretty reasonably likely that this is just another RainKhan type thing, where the guy is just really fast with a mouse and is now 87-tabling FT with multiple accounts to dodge the table cap.

If that's the case, I don't really care at all, although I guess it's technically against the rules.

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Anyone else think this is also very possible? We're all assuming that the reason for similar stats is that this is a bot. But, what if this guy is just 20 tabling on multiple accounts/computers all day long. Wouldnt the numbers be the same? Wouldnt it cause the long delays too? You'd have to play pretty robotically and as far as folding for $5 into a $60 pot goes, if you are playing 20 tables at once, its going to be hard to catch all the tables. Maybe this guy is just a HUD whiz who figured he could play a lot of tables and make more money that way.

That being said, its still a no no, but its definitely a viable theory #2.

[NoahSD]

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I haven't read the whole thread.. but seems like it's also pretty reasonably likely that this is just another RainKhan type thing, where the guy is just really fast with a mouse and is now 87-tabling FT with multiple accounts to dodge the table cap.

If that's the case, I don't really care at all, although I guess it's technically against the rules.

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Timing tell is that he uses a lot of time.

(1) If he's fast with the mouse wouldn't he be quick to fold some hands?
(2) If he's 47 tableing wouldn't he timeout sometimes?

Maybe sometimes its the live player so he is quick, but why do easy decisions take a long time? Why doesn't he ever timeout on one of his 47 tables? I've head no mention of that at all. There's no way he's on 20+ tables waiting for the time to tick down before taking his action and moving on to the next table. No way.

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Because he has 80 tables open. When I 12-table, I pretty frequently time down on easy decisions because i'm busy doing stuff at other tables.


Why the hell would the bot take a really long time to fold a hand? That's retarded unless he really sucks at programming or wanted to make it look more realistic.

[antisocialgrace]

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the stats are not identical. their VPIP ranges from 13.64 to 14.15. this may not seem like much to many, but for an fr nit, this is huge, and there is no way the range would not be tighter over 100,000 hands if the accounts were being run by the same bot program.

ftp investigated these accounts for a month. does no one here even concede the possibility that ftp may have more information exonerating the accused than what so far has been made available here?

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IP check please.

[Nichomacheo]

Also, it would explain why he never plays at the same table, why he doesnt talk, and why he's defensive about it. "His friend" is just himself -- and he doesnt want to get his account shut down for playing on multiple accounts...

The more I think about it, the more realistic I think this is than an evil deep stacked bot. Noah, thanks for bringing this up.

[Cry Me A River]

This thread is sick.

The lack of action by FTP is even sicker.

I have played thousands of hands at FTP this year. I'm done with them because of this and it would take something pretty dramatic to get me back there.


For everyone head-hunting these bots right now - This guy's obviously not going to run bots on these accounts until the heat is off (and maybe never again, opening new accounts would be much safer).

[Skallagrim]

Whew....
The OP backed up the claims with evidence, which, if you are going to accuse somebody of something, is the only appropriate way, IMHO.

The evidence has convinced a large number of folks here, who are quite knowledgable about this stuff. Even to my unfamiliar mind, there is definitely smoke...

But FTP exonerated them, and it can be proved live players are playing these accounts at least some of the time....

Bots + Poker = BAAAAAAAD.

I does seem clear to me, however, that all the above together does indeed cry out for a response from FTP.

I suppose its up to the accused players to decide whether to release personal information, but at present I see nothing wrong with them relying solely on the FTP exoneration.

FTP has to account somehow for this situation in order to maintain/restore credibility. Maybe they know something the accusers dont, maybe the accusers know something FTP missed. Maybe it is just some in between kind of software that makes auto bets while you multitable which you can override or let stand as you try to keep track of 50+ tables. And they have to be careful about releasing private information.

So it is smart for them to prepare their reply, pros rarely go on tilt and bet out without thinking about it first [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] .

But reply they must at some point.


Skallagrim