KK, deep, 4-bet preflop, 120bb behind on A high flop

[bubaloo]

[ QUOTE ]
ummm villain has a set of aces. everytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

really??

edit: some reasons why he would not have AA.

1. he is an unknown and limped-reraised - we'll say he's a "donk".
2. he donked into a 4 bettor on an A high board - is he really gonna do this w/ AA? id say a donk would do this w/ AA around 0% of the time. and would opt to slow play it.
3. his bet looks much more like a scared QQ/KK bet (maybe even JJ).
4. i dont think he would do this much of the time w/ AK either, but if he does.....
5. equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.089% 44.24% 03.85% 5694 495.00 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 51.911% 48.07% 03.85% 6186 495.00 { KK-QQ, AKs, AKo }

i say call flop, call/shove turn.

[AaronOC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ummm villain has a set of aces. everytime.

[/ QUOTE ]

really??

edit: some reasons why he would not have AA.

1. he is an unknown and limped-reraised - we'll say he's a "donk".
2. he donked into a 4 bettor on an A high board - is he really gonna do this w/ AA? id say a donk would do this w/ AA around 0% of the time. and would opt to slow play it.
3. his bet looks much more like a scared QQ/KK bet (maybe even JJ).
4. i dont think he would do this much of the time w/ AK either, but if he does.....
5. equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.089% 44.24% 03.85% 5694 495.00 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 51.911% 48.07% 03.85% 6186 495.00 { KK-QQ, AKs, AKo }

i say call flop, call/shove turn.

[/ QUOTE ]i agree, i he has us beat he played it terrible, get the money in and make a note

[Michaelson]

Interesting thoughts. I probably should have called down, but I'm still not completely convinced. As it was, I lost KK to AA 4 times in 500 hands last night before this hand, and I folded.

My thoughts after reading through (they haven't changed that much) are that AA seems like a strong possibility preflop but much less likely after he bets the flop. AK is much, much more likely in my mind. JJ-KK are probably enough of an outside possibility to call down. I definitely don't understand anyone who suggested call turn/shove anywhere, I don't think proactively putting money into this pot at any point after the flop is rational.

And for the person who said my 4-bet looked big, it feels fine to me. The guy limp/re-raised to 21BB. Against this sort of play I'm satisfied that a monster 4-bet will frequently get calls from hands like JJ+, AK and AQ, and that being the case I like to inflate the pot as much as I can early on.

[wdead]

Nice fold, villains range is AK+ FYI

[martijn]

wow be thanked this board came down, saved you some money.