Best line for non-nut flush on four flush board?

Aironc · #1 05-01-2006, 05:35 PM

Two from this past weekend. Both villans were loose and somewhat passive.

Pacific Poker 25c/50c 8 handed

Hero is SB with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG folds,UTG+1 calls, MP calls, MP+1 calls, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Checked through.

Turn 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero bets, 2 folds, MP calls,MP+1 folds.

River 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks, MP bets, hero calls

Pacific poker 25c/50c 5 handed.

Hero is BB with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets, UTG calls

Turn T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets,UTG calls

River 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Any general thoughts on what line to take? I bet the river in the second hand due to only really fearing two hearts. With the jack I C/C.

Another question, should I lead out in hand one?

Thanks.

Befolder · #2 05-01-2006, 05:41 PM

I like your line in hand one, but I'd check call w/ the flush Q in the second hand.

I'd like to hear other opinions though. I like the rest of your streets.

Dustangel · #3 05-01-2006, 05:43 PM

You should've bet on the flop 1st hand when you had all the pot odds in the world.

Befolder · #4 05-01-2006, 05:45 PM

I don't bet the non-nut flush in first position here. You're asking to be raised and at this point you'd like to make your hand first against only 3 players. Plus, if it's bet and raised before it gets back to you, you can save your bets and fold since your odds have trickled away.

Dustangel · #5 05-01-2006, 06:51 PM

I can only be reasonably beat by a better flush with that board, as the board is rags and two pair with full draw is unlikely

As for the better flush, there are 3 diamond cards higher than our J (which could make a better flush) and 6 diamond cards lower (which would make a worse flush)
Even after you account for the fact that face cards are played more often it doesn't give you anything less than 50% that your flush will be best, and again that's only if you believe there's another flush draw around (which is something like 20-25% I believe)

All that doesn't make the pot odds a lot worse, so I'd want to cap that flop anyway, as raises/reraises would only indicate Q pairs with high kickers to me

Actually the only thing I'm not sure about is whether raising will drive out some random Ad who can otherwise see a diamond on the turn and stick around threatening a better flush or this will only make his pot odds better for calling your turn bets

rjacobs003 · #6 05-01-2006, 05:45 PM

Would have bet the flop in the first hand. You're in late position with plenty of outs for the flush draw so I would try to win this quickly

Befolder · #7 05-01-2006, 05:46 PM

Hero is in early position on both hands according to my view as him being sb and bb respectively.

rjacobs003 · #8 05-01-2006, 05:51 PM

oops *rubs his eyes wearily*

tiltaholic · #9 05-01-2006, 05:57 PM

bet the flop in hand one.
i think hand 2 is ok. (you should sotp the action at your bet - obviously when you get raised everyone will now say check/call)

Befolder · #10 05-01-2006, 05:59 PM

Tilt-Can you give me more info about why to bet hand one in bad position against three villains.

I've seen you post far more than I here so perhaps I'm not doing something I should. I'm just thinking we don't want to get into a situation to make a worse flush than someone else in bad position.

I'm not good with running pot equity numbers and such. My computer can't handle PT yet.