High-end Dining: Expectations and Reviews

[El Diablo]

Sucker,

I moved your post here because I think it is a VERY important part of what should be discussed in this thread.

I agree completely with you about restaurants like that, and pretty much avoid them.

When I think of perfect service at restaurants, it's as if I don't notice the wait staff is there, except when I need something. The wait staff is ATTENTIVE, but not INTRUSIVE. This means that they have a good pulse of when I need another drink and magically appear right about the time I'm thinking "hmmm, almost ready for another drink."

If they are at the table and my wine glass is 2/3 empty, they'll offer to top me off. But they are not hovering about pouring two sips of wine into my glass every few minutes.

I enjoy having a pleasant relationship with the waiter, but I'm not looking to make best friends with the waiter at a place like this either. I want enough information to be able to make good decisions, and that's just about it. A good waiter is a good communicator. He can take cues from a customer as to whether or not they give a damn about where exactly the mushrooms came from.

The Dining Room at Ritz Carlton, Gary Danko, and Quince are three I listed that do this very well. There are many others that also fit the bill. Michael Mina is one restaurant that has a lot of the problems that irritate you. I'll get around to a review of that soon.

It sounds to me like you've been somewhat unlucky with your high-end dining experiences. I've definitely experienced what you are talking about, but I've also experienced a completely different level of service that many in this thread allude to as well. You really need to experience that type of place.

[limon]

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JA Sucker post I've moved here

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A recent thread about high-end dining got me thinking and I've realized that it pisses me off. I have decided that I hate it. I hate the staff's attitude; I hate the patrons' attitudes more. The food looks fantastic and may taste pretty good, but equally wonderful food is always available at more humble places. I don't care to be "in the know" or to fuel my Patrick Bateman-like desire to be seen. The someliers usually recommend worse wines than I can come up with on my own. Almost without exception, I don't want to talk to the wait-staff. I'd rather talk to my friends/date for dinner. You know, the people who I WANTED to eat with. I want to be loud and tell good stories. I don't want 15 people trying to nose their way into my conversation via trying to fill my water glass. I do not equate attention with good service.

All of these factors and more have made me realize that I just don't enjoy these restaurants as much as I should. I have no objections to paying good money for a great meal, but I don't want to pay great money for a good meal, and the fact of the matter is that most of the time the food just isn't as good as it is many other places, most of which are just kind of neighborhood-type of places.

Feel free to agree or disagree here. This thread should be a liberation of sorts for all people who like food, but hate the attitude that goes along with it.
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if youve read my posts you know i eat anywhere the food is good. and most of my favorite places would be classified as "cheap eats". i do, however, understand the difference between a good meal and a fine dining experience...here it is: i can go to dan tanas and have a great meal. the staff is awesome everyone knows me, i can bring a group and theyre all treated like kings. i dont even need a menu nino knows exactly what i want and how i want it prepared. he will make anything for anyone in the group if he has the ingredients in the kitchen. mike will pour me a glass of decent red and some wierd stuff he has under the bar after dinner. but i would not consider this fine dining...fine dining is as follows: you walk in, plop yourself down tell the waiter to bring you a 5 course tasting menu w/ drink pairings which may include wine/beer/or cocktails chefs choice and sommelier choice. then you just proceed to get blown away by what follows. its the difference between getting your house painted by a great crew who will do exactly as you say and having your portrait done by a master.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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I hate the staff's attitude

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this is certainly a reason I stay away from certain places, but it can happen at all kinds of places.

I refuse to set foot into Hi Rise Bakery in Cambridge b/c of staff people are the smarmiest people I have ever experienced and these are [censored] retail workers. Great, you make $45 Apple Pies, how about I punch you in the [censored] face?

now, there are plenty of other great bakeries without this attitude, so I don't hate all bakeries. it's probably the same with the best restaurants.

[octopi]

JA Sucker: I guess what I like best is possibly finding a bit more about a restaurant I have admired for a while and also trying some things I might not normally be able to. For instance, this weekend, I was taken to a restaurant three hours away from my home city based of the strength of their tasting menu. I was blown away by almost all of the seven dishes (got to try sweetbreads and a wonderful dessert wine), but also enjoyed our service (casual, non intrusive, informative) and the flexibility of the kitchen. I overheard that sour cream ice cream was on the regular menu so I asked if I had heard correctly, and was amazed when the ginger ice cream on my dessert tasting was substituted with the sour cream. We were late diners, and after chatting with our server, he brought over the remainder of our favorite wine pairing to finish up.

The chef came out to meet us, and answered some questions on the tasting and he told us to return in the future with any special requests we might have.

I have certainly received some [censored] service in an expensive restaurant before, and some snobby service, but perhaps it is just the casual fun way my boyfriend and I approach dining because we have often received above par and very friendly service, even compared to other diners around us. It might differ if the restaurant is packed with corporate credit card holders every night of the week and most of the attendees assume more expensive = better food. That's not always the case.

[lapoker17]

diablo - i can never believe that you think nobu in vegas is a good dining experience. i find it super uncomfortable - everyone's so jammed together. i don't think the service is that good either. food's great, but whatever

[El Diablo]

octopi: "perhaps it is just the casual fun way my boyfriend and I approach dining because we have often received above par and very friendly service"

That is very often the case at all restaurants, including fine-dining places. And you don't have to chat them up if you don't want to. Just some simple eye contact, acknowledgements, and appropriate "thank yous" go a long, long way towards receiving excellent service.

KBZ: Snotty attitude from service industry people is a sensitive subject for me, haha. Thread touches on restaurant service as well.

[J.A.Sucker]

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That is very often the case at all restaurants, including fine-dining places. And you don't have to chat them up if you don't want to. Just some simple eye contact, acknowledgements, and appropriate "thank yous" go a long, long way towards receiving excellent service.

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If I'm paying 300 bucks for a nice dinner for two, this should go without saying. But that's not really my point here, however.

[El Diablo]

la,

I've been lucky (losing ridiculous amounts at Hard Rock and having host make reservations probably helps, btw having an independent restaurant within a casino that they don't comp is the most ridiculous thing ever, but that's a whole different rant) with tables every time I've been at Nobu and gotten good tables that are not jam packed together, but I've definitely seen what you're talking about. I've always had more room at Nobu in Vegas than in New York. However, I suspect my opinion of my experiences there are somwhat colored by the fact that they are always in the midst of a drunken two or three day Hard Rock gambling frenzy. So Nobu, while in actuality quite loud, seems like an oasis of peace and tranquility in the middle of all that. I agree that the experience is probably not as great as my impression of it is.

[El Diablo]

Sucker,

What are some places you've been to that are guilty of this type of behavior?

[Fast Food Knight]

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I've never spent $500+ on a meal for two including tip and wine...but then again I live in Atl and not NY, LV, CHI, or SF

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You came really close though. Which brings me to my review...

Quinones at Bacchanalia

Link

A lavish prix fixe multi-course restaurant which opened in the basement of Bacchanalia (established fine dining restaurant in Atlanta) by the same owners to accommodate more upscale parties. AEK and I recently celebrated our 2 year anniversary which included an amazing dinner here.

First of all, the restaurant only seats 11 tables. When we arrived, we were the first and only people there well through the majority of the meal (it was a rainy, freezing Thursday). You have the option of having a wine pairing with each of the ten courses, @ $165 per person. Once you add in the $ for the sparkling water we got (AEK's idea), tax, and tip, you have a pretty steep tab.

Chef's Taster
Complimentary pink champagne, and a crispy fried bite containing cod and potatoes that was creamy and delicious. On the side was a small shot glass of soup (I know this has a name - sorry, I'm not that sophisticated). I think it was cauliflower; also delicious.

First course - Foie Gras Terrine with Port Poached Pears & Blood Orange with Donnhoff Riesling Kabinett

Sadly I discovered I hate foie gras and consider to be comparable to spam. The presentation was beautiful, however, and the Riesling was to DIE for.

Second course - Slightly Cured North Georgia Rainbow Trout with Local Radish & Avocado Puree with Guado Al Tasso Vermentino

This course really wow-ed me as I wasn't too familiar with the practice of curing fish. Our waitress was extremely knowledgeable about the process which basically includes letting the raw fish sit in water, sugar, and vodka for several days which essentially "cooks" it. I was also happy that she was able to tell me where in North Georgia the trout was from, as that is where I was born and raised. The radish and avocado went perfectly with the cured fish. Made us vow to go home and try our hand at curing meat. The wine was slightly more full bodied than the riesling and incredibly delicious.

Third course - Pan Seared Nantucket Bay Scallop with Meyer Lemon, Celeriac & Perigord Truffle with Jurancon Sec

The scallop was served in a small bowl swimming in the rich celeriac sauce, which was creamy and complemented the flavor of the scallop (which was perfectly cooked). The truffle was cool only because I've always been amazed at the price of an olive oil that contains truffles. At this point the wines began running together a little bit.

Fourth course - Pan Roasted Gulf Red Snapper with Young Fennel, Leek & Green Garlic Broth with Marsannay Blanc

The flavor of this dish was my favorite thus far, and what made the presentation so good was that they spooned the fresh broth over the fish as they were serving it, so you caught the full aroma. The seasoning here was dead on - perhaps because I love garlic [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img], and the portion was just the right size to really prolong your appetite rather than filling you up so early on in the meal. This was the last course with white wine and of course the heaviest of the whites (which I usually dislike) but again it was so good I wanted to write down the name so I could buy a bottle later.

Fifth course - Veal Sweetbreads with Roasted Turnips, Cippollini Onions & Lacinato Kale with Barolo

I was a little freaked out about the sweetbreads just because "thymus gland" doesn't sound too appetizing, but this course was wonderful as well. The sweetbreads were baked into some sort of cake, or patty, which seemed like a mixture of many ingredients and flavors. I enjoyed the texture. This was atop the onions and kale which was DELICIOUS and reminded me of sauteed baby spinach. At this point I am still feeling hungry and looking forward to more food.

Sixth course - Braised Kobe Shortribs with Potato Puree & Crispy Fingerling Potatoes with Basel Cellars, Merriment 2002

Now THIS was the real treat. Served completely boneless, there were two piles of meat - one was bright pink and so tender you could cut it with your fork. The other was covered in the heavenly potato puree. Definitely the winning course, hands down.

Seventh course - Sweet Grass Dairy Fresh Goat's Milk Cheese with Savannah Tupelo Honeycomb Spiced Pecans

I love the combination of cheese and spiced pecans. It was a good pallet cleanser after the heavier meat courses.

Eighth course - Beignets with Warm Almond Milk

An amazing dessert, I would give anything to be able to recreate the almond milk.

Ninth course - Caramel Apple Cake with Apple Cream & Balsamic Sorbet with Chateau lafaurie-Peyraguey 2000

Every part of this dessert tasted great except the balsamic sorbet. It tasted like creamy vinegar to me. I think AEK liked it. Quite drunk at this point. The dessert wine was very sweet and almost seem syrupy if that is possible. I liked it but he didn't so I finished both of ours. Heh.

Of course after this they HAD to bring us a small plate of various cookies, pastries, chocolates, and toffees, which I personally enjoyed better than any of the desserts. Throughout the course of the meal we had two alternating servers who were very knowledgeable and friendly.

We also were entertained by the extremely flaming maître d', who, once we divulged that we live in the gay porn district in town, shared with us a story regarding expensive fur shawls and how they are only for "ladies and queens" and gestured to indicate himself. It was hilarious.

Oh, and 2/3 through our meal another table came in, consisting of old, southern, good-ole-boy lawyers. Upon entrance one of them announced that he was "allergic to all seafood." Quickly after this another chimes in that he "doesn't eat the entrails of animals." Well, then why did you come to a prix fixe restaurant serving both, you idiots. Of course, they were accommodated.

I have been to a lot of upscale restaurants in Atlanta, San Francisco, SoCal, Boston, etc... and this takes the cake BY FAR.