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#41
11-01-2007, 07:34 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't really mind if QBs only got a reasonable maximum of 5-6 points a game like a defensive player would, but when QBs rattle off 5 TDs in a game and end up with like 45 points that decides a head-to-head matchup, it's just silly. [/ QUOTE ] Think about it. [/ QUOTE ] I have no problem with this. The QB drives the action of the game, and his point total reflects his team's offensive effort. A good QB will pick up a lot of fantasy points because he played well by throwing lots of TDs. Kickers get rewarded with lots of points not because they had amazing games but because their team failed to achieve its primary offensive objective. Granted, he still has to make all those field goals, but my point is a kicker doesn't amass high point totals in proportion to how well he plays but in proportion to how much his offense falls short of a TD, which creates perverse rooting incentives. 
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#42
11-01-2007, 07:47 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
There need to be two QBs per team in FF anyway. 2 QB 3 WR 2 RB 1 TE 1 Flex. The more spots the better!
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#43
11-01-2007, 07:54 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't really mind if QBs only got a reasonable maximum of 5-6 points a game like a defensive player would, but when QBs rattle off 5 TDs in a game and end up with like 45 points that decides a head-to-head matchup, it's just silly. [/ QUOTE ] Think about it. [/ QUOTE ] I have no problem with this. The QB drives the action of the game, and his point total reflects his team's offensive effort. A good QB will pick up a lot of fantasy points because he played well by throwing lots of TDs. Kickers get rewarded with lots of points not because they had amazing games but because their team failed to achieve its primary offensive objective. Granted, he still has to make all those field goals, but my point is a kicker doesn't amass high point totals in proportion to how well he plays but in proportion to how much his offense falls short of a TD, which creates perverse rooting incentives. [/ QUOTE ] On the contrary, a kicker scores more points because he does do his job well when the rest of the offense didn't get the ball in the end zone. I'm used to kicker hate, but what you said just doesn't make any sense.
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#44
11-01-2007, 08:49 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't really mind if QBs only got a reasonable maximum of 5-6 points a game like a defensive player would, but when QBs rattle off 5 TDs in a game and end up with like 45 points that decides a head-to-head matchup, it's just silly. [/ QUOTE ] Think about it. [/ QUOTE ] I have no problem with this. The QB drives the action of the game, and his point total reflects his team's offensive effort. A good QB will pick up a lot of fantasy points because he played well by throwing lots of TDs. Kickers get rewarded with lots of points not because they had amazing games but because their team failed to achieve its primary offensive objective. Granted, he still has to make all those field goals, but my point is a kicker doesn't amass high point totals in proportion to how well he plays but in proportion to how much his offense falls short of a TD, which creates perverse rooting incentives. [/ QUOTE ] I have no idea what the numbers are, but my guess would be that kickers who are kicking 4-5 TD's in a game are on the winning side more often than not, so they're not necessarily part of a crappy team effort.
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#45
11-01-2007, 10:25 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
vhawk, wtf? I didn't even mention accuracy once. Many colleges are stuck with kickers who just don't have the leg to kick 45+ yd FGs. So when attempts get in that range, coaches have a real dilemma on whether to try or not. Just like in the article, it's about leg strength, not accuracy. Put your itchy "Post" finger on ice for a while. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, my bad, I was assuming we were generally talking about NFL kickers, who are pretty much all guys who can make standard length kicks. Guys like Elam and a few others who have that extra 5 yards of range exist but the situations where that matters are incredibly rare and probably trivial. In college its obviously different, because with over a hundred DI teams there are going to be some teams that don't actually have kickers, they just have guys who wear a funny helmet and are short. I didn't realize thats what you were talking about. EDIT: By trivial I mean trivial re: FGs, obv, not trivial in general, since they are probably also the guys booming kickoffs.
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#46
11-01-2007, 10:26 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
What are the reasons the basic findings don't also apply to college? [/ QUOTE ] Because its easy to canvas the entire US and find 32 guys who can make all the normal kicks for a couple million bucks. Its much harder to find 120 or so 18-22 year olds who can do it, so you gotta make do.
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#47
11-01-2007, 10:28 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
Having a great kicker vs. having a bad kicker is probably worth 1-2 wins a year to most teams.
A really awesome teams who blows everyone out or a really terrible team that always gets blown out, the effect is lessened. Teams that have several close games a year, which is most, kicking has a bigger impact on.
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#48
11-01-2007, 11:28 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
I think NFL should switch to the rugby style of conversions. i.e. you have to kick from in line with where you went over for the TD. This would add an extra element of skill [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] the value of kickers comes more from fgs than pats
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#49
11-01-2007, 11:35 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
Granted, he still has to make all those field goals, but my point is a kicker doesn't amass high point totals in proportion to how well he plays but in proportion to how much his offense falls short of a TD, which creates perverse rooting incentives. [/ QUOTE ] There are all kinds of perverse rooting incentives in fantasy football. If you have the RB for a team, you root for the WR to get pushed out of bounds at the 1. Then, the guy with the WR roots for an offensive penalty so the team is pushed back out of goalline range and his receiver gets to come back in. Then the guy with the RB roots for the WR to drop the corner fade on 1st down, so his RB will get another chance...and so on all over the place. Rooting for a team to not convert on a 3rd down in the red zone is no different. Actually, since most leagues reward 1 point for an extra point, and penalize for missed FGs, there are many situations where I'm just fine with the TD and the easy XP.
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#50
11-01-2007, 11:41 PM
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Re: Value of a Kicker
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Granted, he still has to make all those field goals, but my point is a kicker doesn't amass high point totals in proportion to how well he plays but in proportion to how much his offense falls short of a TD, which creates perverse rooting incentives. [/ QUOTE ] There are all kinds of perverse rooting incentives in fantasy football. If you have the RB for a team, you root for the WR to get pushed out of bounds at the 1. Then, the guy with the WR roots for an offensive penalty so the team is pushed back out of goalline range and his receiver gets to come back in. Then the guy with the RB roots for the WR to drop the corner fade on 1st down, so his RB will get another chance...and so on all over the place. Rooting for a team to not convert on a 3rd down in the red zone is no different. Actually, since most leagues reward 1 point for an extra point, and penalize for missed FGs, there are many situations where I'm just fine with the TD and the easy XP. [/ QUOTE ] Nit.
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