Dancing with the devil

[Andrew Karpinski]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

[etizzle]

if he is good/agressive enough to value bet any pair on the river than I like it. If he is really lag and u might be tempted to call a 3 bet then I would just bet-call the river.

[Magikist]

Like anything, it's player dependent, but against reasonable, ie the majority of, players this river c/r is pretty ugly.

I actually like a check-call better than a bet-call because you're liable to catch more bluffs.

[The Bryce]

The devil won't pay you off often enough to make up for the failures.

[thedorf]

this seems doable under the right conditions but I think Bryce had a really good point about not getting paid off enough.

I have some digressing questions if you'll humor me. What do you do if the turn is a blank (if you check, do you call a bet?)

Also, why not bet the turn? Let's say you do and get raised, do you call?

[Andrew Karpinski]

He called and MHWG.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
The devil won't pay you off often enough to make up for the failures.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying that a river check-raise with Ks Qs would be profitable here? (Even if you think there is a better way to play Ks Qs than the line taken in this hand.)

I think you are getting paid just about every time by a worse hand (other than a busted draw). It's just a question of whether you are good about 60-65% of the time here, because your hand is right on the borderline where worse hands are calling but most better hands are 3-betting.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
The devil won't pay you off often enough to make up for the failures.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure he will. Your hand looks a lot like a bluff. Hell pay off with any pair and even ace high. Ive seen people pay off with even worse than that.

I agree with etizzle that if hes LAG id rather bet/call

[New001]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The devil won't pay you off often enough to make up for the failures.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure he will. Your hand looks a lot like a bluff. Hell pay off with any pair and even ace high. Ive seen people pay off with even worse than that.

I agree with etizzle that if hes LAG id rather bet/call

[/ QUOTE ]
How often is A-high betting the river here though? It's really player dependant I think, lots of players will check behind with bottom pair or a low pair here but will obviously pay off a bet. A good number will valuebet those too. I think it's very rare for someone to valuebet and fold to the check/raise, no matter what their holding is.

[challenger84]

[ QUOTE ]
He called and MHWG.

[/ QUOTE ]


Of course it was, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it.