Easy call?

registrar · #1 09-10-2007, 04:31 PM

£15 £3500 added. Standard is bad but no reads on villain.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $150/$300
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1460
UTG+1: $10010
Hero: $12195
MP2: $2605
MP3: $3342
CO: $2990
Button: $7746
SB: $11260
BB: $4530

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $300 (pot was $450), Hero raises to $1200, 4 folds, SB calls $1050 (pot was $1950), 2 folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($3000, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2000, SB raises all-in $10060, Hero?

4CardStraight · #2 09-10-2007, 04:39 PM

Wow, thats really something, isn't it.

I hate to be a master of the obvious, but theres just nothing here except a QQ KK that smooths from the blind, check raises knowing your going to bet your AK, and he I would bet is hoping that your going to call it.

He has to know that many players cant let go of AK here, so I really dont think this can be air... Against someone I have some history with I might make a call here, but this... bleh. Maybe its Ace king and were chopping. I really dont think any underpair or AJ/AT can play this way, your just too likely to be calling with AK/AQ/KQ... sigh

We have a stack, Im fine with a fold here.

Thegunshow · #3 09-10-2007, 04:47 PM

I'd probably snap call but it's very possible you're behind here. Limps UTG+1 then flats your raise and CRAI in the flop. You've hit TPTK here so what is he shoving on you with? KQs? J10s? 44? QQ? Besides the J10(which isn't very likely), what is he doing this with that we are ahead of?

JARID · #4 09-10-2007, 05:06 PM

Reg,

Does AK,KQ,KJ and JT seem like a reasonable range?

Jarid

Jaysick88 · #5 09-10-2007, 05:13 PM

If he puts us on AK as 4 card is saying I think this is about the worst way he can play his hand because this big shove leaves us the opportunity to fold. If he has a hand that is crushing us we are drawing very slim and I think our opponent played the hand very very poorly. That being said I think we are ahead enough here to justify a call. I think crypto does not have antes at any level (?) which might just be a reason to fold and try and find a spot where we have the pot control for our entire stack.

registrar · #6 09-10-2007, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reg,

Does AK,KQ,KJ and JT seem like a reasonable range?

Jarid

[/ QUOTE ]

It's an unknown in added prizepool on Crypto. His range is AK, AA, QQ, KK, KQ, 44, JT and then there'll sometimes be total nonsense more than you could possibly believe. How often does this have to be nonsense to make this a call?

JoeyJoJo Shabadu · #7 09-10-2007, 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reg,

Does AK,KQ,KJ and JT seem like a reasonable range?

Jarid

[/ QUOTE ]

It's an unknown in added prizepool on Crypto. His range is AK, AA, QQ, KK, KQ, 44, JT and then there'll sometimes be total nonsense more than you could possibly believe. How often does this have to be nonsense to make this a call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once.

erc007 · #8 09-10-2007, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
£15 £3500 added. Standard is bad but no reads on villain.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $150/$300
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1460
UTG+1: $10010
Hero: $12195
MP2: $2605
MP3: $3342
CO: $2990
Button: $7746
SB: $11260
BB: $4530

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $300 (pot was $450), Hero raises to $1200, 4 folds, SB calls $1050 (pot was $1950), 2 folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($3000, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2000, SB raises all-in $10060, Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that (without a read on SB) that this is an 'easy call.' I know that you're saying that the defalut assumpition with respect to the skill level of the avg player in this tourney is bad...but the question is how bad?

Obv, calling OOP with 44 here is pretty bad IMO, as is calling w JTs;KQ. I don't hate calling with KQs, but not against a strong player. Calling with QQ is interesting (i'd usually RR it OOP tho.) AA and KK are in his range too.

Postflop, why would he play the hands that have u killed (KK;QQ;44) so fast on this flop? You've only got about 1/4 of your stack invested...by raising a limper and c-betting. So far, this has not been a huge show of strength. He'd have to really suck to assume that you're really strong here and c/r AI with a set. I'd expect a min-c/r from a player that flatcalls pre w QQ-AA. IMO, he's more likely to play KQ fast, along with JT/air. If u had c-bet 1500, or if he reads your 2/3 pot bet as weak...his range could widen to include 77-TT. In my experience, donks will c/call down w AQ here. His weird line here makes it tough to figure out what part of his range he plays like this. Without a read, i think this is a fold, although i wouldn't feel very good about it...

BarryLyndon · #9 09-10-2007, 08:02 PM

this is so [censored].

Barry

Pokerfarian · #10 09-10-2007, 08:46 PM

Meh his line is a strong one but even so at this level the smooth call preflop doesn't mean too much, and as such I'm not folding TPTK with these stack

ot sizes on flop