25/50NL HU >300BB Deep Tough River Spot

[Arito]

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I'm checking back this river. Given his propensity to check-raise you, essentially w/ the nuts, AND the fact that you've not caught him bluffing EVER in this spot. I don't think I need to find any value on 5th street, as my flush wants a showdown.

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If he NEVER bluff raises on the river isn't this pretty much an easy bet/fold? You want value from your flush and you know you will not get bluff raised off your hand. The likelier he is to bluff you off your hand, the more I might consider checking. Then again, if he really likes to bluff raise the river than it turns in to a bet/call.

So basically:

Never bluff raise -> bet/fold
Some times bluff raises -> perhaps check behind, but probably bet/fold still
Often times bluff raises -> perhaps check behind, but probably bet/call
Really likes to bluff raise -> bet/call.

Am I way off here?

[AbreuTime]

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I would rather b/f turn than b/f river here.

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wowowowowow.

sorry but who are you? this is just absurd.

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Personal attack aside, you assert that it is criminal to check back the river after checking turn (and I obv. agree). You also say it is crazy to b/f turn (with 10hi flush on board of 9h5h6x6h). Are you checking your entire range? Entire range that is less than full house? I am certainly betting a full house for value. I am betting the turn being this deep with less than a full house, otherwise your range (after checking) is too easily narrowed to weak made hands that will bet river. If you're too scared to b/f the river, b/f turn is better than c/c, c/c imo.

If you check your entire range on turn, fine, even if I don't agree.


You want a generic answer, ok: check back turn for pot control with weak made hand, value bet river, fold to raise. It's obvious, and this wouldn't even make this hand postworthy because it is so standard.

[LAgambol]

i would call, you think he would really check a hand twice that beats you on the turn and river, especially after you checked behind on the turn

[Jazzy3113]

One of you suggested checking back the river which makes no sense in a HU game. I dont think he can make the c/r here with trips, so your prob up agaisnt a boat, smaller/higher flush, or a bluff.

Based on your provided info we can rule out the bluff, so you can make a superstar fold or pay him off. Also, I think every street you played well, although betting the turn for 3/4 - full pot isnt horrible i think.

Results?

[SuperPokerJedi]

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after reading the replies, i have deemed that hsnl has gone the way of sttf 2 years ago. its sad, i loved both forums, now they are both complete [censored].

also, i would fold river.

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I have to agree with you Raptor, I can say that I don't really post that often because when I joined the forum the only really great posts were in the sticky threads. Until recently I felt that 2+2 lacked on good thinking content and wasn't worth posting on.

There seemed to be a real Golden Age on 2+2 when the best online players seemed to beposting ridiculously good content hands involving deep discussion that people couldn't hlep but have an opinion on. I really felt that after the American legislation somehting died on this site and posts just lacked certain quality.

This was true until I saw the Jman 60kNL vs PA on Roland de Wolfe's account. This hand makes me feel that if good posts/posters like that continue to put down the most mentally demanding hand from a session that appears to have a multitude of answers then maybe we have a shot at having a great forum like it was 2 yrs ago!

Apologies for the mini-rant. This hand is a obv fold imo, especially given reads.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

I would fold the river

and i know you said you didn't wanna hear it, but i don't like the flop that much. i like 2450 better than 2050 and i like calling better than both of them

[Lou_Diamond$]

This was true until I saw the Jman 60kNL vs PA on Roland de Wolfe's account.

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do you hve link to this discussion? i serched for it but returned nothing, & id like to see it.

[jfish]

meh i call river if this is vs who i think it is.

[Oki-Oki]

Isnt the fact that he has been less bluffy/splashy in this match make a bluff more of his range just because he thinks you would give him credit. But then if he knows that you know this the reverse could also be true.

But wtf at bet folding the turn and checking river behind. Results orientated much? Also if you check behind here you understand you loose all ability to value bet, which in tough aggro match = u loose.

Also Im with Jfish.

[gman06]

Just to clear a couple of things up without trying to bias the opinions. This guy is a very good player who is able to mix up his play very well. Just because I haven't caught him bluffing when taking this specific line certainly does not mean he isn't capable of bluffing here. And FWIW, he has bluffed in pots this big before.

To the guy who said he doesn't think Villian would check a hand that beats us twice, this is way, way, off. If villain has a full house here, I expect him to take this exact line a decent % of the time.

Also, raptor I agree some of these posts suck, but some are from good posters, so I just ignore the people who are way over their heads.

I'll give results after some more discussion.