Cold calling with AJs and KQs

[AlexM]

Ed Miller advocates cold calling with AJs and KQs when you're next to act after a UTG raiser in a tight game. Insane or no? How does he not have you dominated most of the time? It seems very much like this is very obviously wrong if you're playing against someone with your exact same preflop standards.

[KitCloudkicker]

where does he advocate this?

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
where does he advocate this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Small Stakes Hold Em page 80. Against a raise in early position, play AA-TT AKs-AJs, KQs and AK and raise: AA-TT, AKs and AK.

[egocidal]

AJs and QKs are better than a lot of the hands most people open UTG with, seeing as they have no real clue about position. If someone is going to call two bets cold they will call 3 bets cold, and you will have position on the UTG raiser. Raise it unless you know something about UTG.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
AJs and QKs are better than a lot of the hands most people open UTG with, seeing as they have no real clue about position. If someone is going to call two bets cold they will call 3 bets cold, and you will have position on the UTG raiser. Raise it unless you know something about UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people where? .15/.25? Also, he advocates cold calling, not reraising. Maybe this is just something where I should pay attention and do it if they have a greater than 8% preflop raise, but that's less that half the players.

[egocidal]

I mean in my general experience, which is mostly at 4/8 and 6/12 live, I will reraise AJs and QKs almost 100% of the time after an UTG raiser. And maybe that's a mistake on my part, I just can't stop undervaluing live player's hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[StrictlyStrategy]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean in my general experience, which is mostly at 4/8 and 6/12 live, I will reraise AJs and QKs almost 100% of the time after an UTG raiser. And maybe that's a mistake on my part, I just can't stop undervaluing live player's hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to say it definitely is because I don't know their standards but against someone who's limping in 85% of the time this is pretty bad. Especially in a 4-8 game where one bet and 3 bets preflop are basically the same thing to the other 9 people at the table.

[Hyperrrprank]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean in my general experience, which is mostly at 4/8 and 6/12 live, I will reraise AJs and QKs almost 100% of the time after an UTG raiser. And maybe that's a mistake on my part, I just can't stop undervaluing live player's hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a mistake.

The raise isn't really for value, since you shut out callers behind (who you want if you hit a strong draw) and you will be dominated enough of the time to show an immediate loss in a heads-up competition.

If the raiser is loose and terrible raising to isolate isn't that bad a plan, but as a standard play it isn't great.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone is going to call two bets cold they will call 3 bets cold, and you will have position on the UTG raiser. Raise it unless you know something about UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you play like that vs my UTG raises

[SNOWBALL]

a lot of UTG raisers in your games have a tighter range than this:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

376,706,880 games 0.031 secs 12,151,834,838 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.161% 30.42% 02.74% 114607800 10313768.00 { KQs }
Hand 1: 66.839% 64.10% 02.74% 241471544 10313768.00 { TT+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }

That should be pretty close to your default assumptions. If they are loose raisers, then adjust. If you know nothing about them, don't just say "well maybe he is a loose raiser he could have KTo. I need to take a chance, b/c this could be profitable"
That's totally the wrong way to think about gambling in general. It's a frame of mind that people have when they place a big bet on a basketball game because of a rumor they heard from a dubious source.

Let's give UTG raiser a stupidly loose range (top 20%)


1,595,867,328 games 0.005 secs 319,173,465,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.647% 49.19% 02.46% 785035824 39189388.00 { KQs }
Hand 1: 48.353% 45.90% 02.46% 732452728 39189388.00 { 66+, A4s+, K7s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

You see how loose his range has to be before we become even a SLIGHT favorite? Also, remember that when we hit our hand and get action, it's often not going to be the kind of action we want, because we could easily be dominated and drawing to 3 outs or less.